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Hebrews 3:7 - 4:13 compares this High Priest also to the commanding general Joshua leading the children of Israel into the conquest of the land of Canaan for a restful Sabbath of a conquered Promise Land. And the save being His PARTNERS in that conquest.
"For we have become PARTNERS of Christ if indeed we hold fast the beginning of the assurance firm to the end - " (4:14)
Some in Joshua's day are examples of not being able to enter the conquered Canaan Land because unbelief are set forth as an example to the new covenant believers.
"And with whom was He displeased for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned whose carcassess fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they should not enter ito His rest, except to the disobedient." (3:17,18)
These came OUT of Egypt by the after the Passover.
Yet they wandered in the wilderness dying there, and not entering into the
Promised Land.
This shuldf correspond to being redeemed yet not being transformed to be led into the expression of God's glory. They are still saved. They are fallen short of the full goal of being redeemed - a temporary loss of reward, a temporary discipline.
@sonship saidMore mumbo jumbo bs from you.
Man will forever be endowed with the limited mental faculties he was given by creation; hence, he will never be omniscient.
Show us where the Bible says this? you can skip the obvious part that we will never be omniscient. Duh...
You contradicting yourself. You admit that it is obvious that saved man will bever be omniscient. THEREFORE it foll ...[text shortened]... cate AGREEMENT on a few of the sentences. The remaining ones I think have been shown to be biblical.
It's simple really, God is ONE! That's Biblical, unlike most of what you post. The trinity bs is just that, bs; and, there is nothing in the God's Holy Word stating anything about a Trinity; it's all invented by man who could not rap their heads around ONE GOD!
Now, more scriptures for you, Trinity.
[John 14:7-11 NKJV] 7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him." 8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority]; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 "Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves."
And, you or us, will never be deified (worshiped as a god). End of your un-true story; which you have backed away from; some.
God is Spirit! Hence, The Holy Spirit is God. God's Holy Spirit was fully in Jesus, when Jesus was alive in the flesh on this earth. God came Himself to this earth, in the flesh ,to save us. It's simple really. Read the Bible and find out.
Now, you can waste your time all you want here; however, I'm done here with your unbiblical "Trinity"deified" bs.
Good day, or nite.
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More mumbo jumbo bs from you.
I only read the first two lines and decided it was direspectful.
So the rest I will not read nor anything else you write here.
Maybe an apology will incentavize me restart dialogue with you.
However, I suspect you purposely are poisoning the well to drive me away from
conversing.
I think I have been respectful to you and your opinions, some of which I did find constructive for discussion. I guess that was in the past.
@sonship saidTake your toys and go home.
@KingDavid403
More mumbo jumbo bs from you.
I only read the first two lines and decided it was direspectful.
So the rest I will not read nor anything else you write here.
Maybe an apology will incentavize me restart dialogue with you.
However, I suspect you purposely are poisoning the well to drive me away from
conversing.
...[text shortened]... d your opinions, some of which I did find constructive for discussion. I guess that was in the past.
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@sonship saidYour whole strategy of ransacking scripture to support non-biblical ramblings is disrespectful to genuine Christians.
@KingDavid403
More mumbo jumbo bs from you.
I only read the first two lines and decided it was direspectful.
So the rest I will not read nor anything else you write here.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
No it is not. It is honoring my Christian brothers and sisters and serving them.
And it is also [i]mutual[/b] as I receive serving in ministry FROM other believers as well.
And it is not ransacking.
It is searching the Sctipures.
God in His wisdom had it written in this way so that it is here a little and there a little many times. Nuggets of treasures meant to be mined out by those who care.
Isaiah 28:10
English Revised Version
For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little.
@sonship saidThank God you are here to teach us and save us fools from damnation, because we know nothing about deification.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
No it is not. It is honoring my Christian brothers and sisters and serving them.
And it is also [i]mutual[/b] as I receive serving in ministry FROM other believers as well.
And it is not ransacking.
It is searching the Sctipures.
God in His wisdom had it written in this way so that it is here a little and there a little many times. Nuggets ...[text shortened]... n precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little. [/b]
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"For we have become PARTNERS of Christ if indeed we hold fast the beginning of the assurance firm to the end - " (3:14)(not 4:14)
Other English renderings of Heb. 3:14.
Christian Standard Bible
For we have become participants in Christ if we hold firmly until the end the reality that we had at the start.
Good News Translation
For we are all partners with Christ if we hold firmly to the end the confidence we had at the beginning.
International Standard Version
because we are the Messiah's partners only if we hold on to our original confidence to the end.
English Standard Version
For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
Berean Study Bible
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first.
Berean Literal Bible
For we have become partakers of Christ, if indeed we should hold firm unto the end the assurance from the beginning.
New American Bible
We have become partners of Christ if only we hold the beginning of the reality firm until the end,
Weymouth New Testament
For we have, all alike, become sharers with Christ, if we really hold our first confidence firm to the End;
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI just can't wrap my mind around the idea of deification, though I think I understand what sonship means by that term. I know what the Bible says about the believer being "conformed to the image of his Son", but the wording says "conformed to", not deified.
Deification is not a nugget of treasure to be mined out. It is fool's gold.
To be "conformed to the image of his Son" doesn't mean "deification", I think it means something closer to the idea of "identification".
symmorphos - having the same form as another, similar, conformed to.
That Greek word is used twice in the New Testament. In Philippians 3:21 it says; "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body,.."
"Like unto" - symmorphos. We obviously won't have the same body as Jesus. Just a new one "like unto" his resurrected body.
In the same way we are "symmorphos" to the image of his Son. It doesn't speak of "deification". In my opinion that idea is taking it too far, too close to the Godhead.
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@josephw
You share that beautifully.
And I appreciate it very much.
Thankyou.
Concerning all that you share, we, I think, should remember this.
All this is done through His life being imparted into us.
That is the kicker. It is not just action done upon creatures purely objectively.
But it is by His life impartation.
It is by His life dispensing, saturation, permeation, and eventual
swallowing up.
I am definitely edified by what you say there.
I would add the important element that it is by imparting of His divine life.
This is a life relationship, an "organic" relationship with God.
It is not just that God creates more glorious angels.
But He has become the inward life of His sons.
@josephw saidYou are just repeating the same thing every single person has said so far. The only difference is that you are sympathetic [aka sucking up] toward sonship and his ridiculous twisting of the bible. Sonship likewise is sucking in the sympathy.
I just can't wrap my mind around the idea of deification, though I think I understand what sonship means by that term. I know what the Bible says about the believer being "conformed to the image of his Son", but the wording says "conformed to", not deified.
To be "conformed to the image of his Son" doesn't mean "deification", I think it means something closer to the idea o ...[text shortened]... sn't speak of "deification". In my opinion that idea is taking it too far, too close to the Godhead.
@sonship saidNot a problem sonship that we disagree on matters theologically.
@josephw
You share that beautifully.
And I appreciate it very much.
Thankyou.
Concerning all that you share, we, I think, should remember this.
All this is done through His life being imparted into us.
That is the kicker. It is not just action done upon creatures purely objectively.
But it is by His life impartation.
...[text shortened]... just that God creates more glorious angels.
But He has become the inward life of His sons.
Makes for good discussions. Would be good for your argument if there was an accredited theologian you could cite to support your assertions.
I've never heard any other, and I've heard many, ever assert the idea of "deification". It's a seriously strong concept that needs more support than only you propounding it in this backwater hole-in-the-wall forum.
So far you have zero converts, and sorry to say you have alienated a few Christians and brought a barrage of criticism on yourself and your solitary idea of deification.
In my opinion this forum format is better suited to a defense of creation in opposition to evolution, than as a place to assert a particular systematic theological position.
But, of course, you are free to post as you see fit. Just like the rest of us.
@rajk999 saidShut up. You're full of mierda. 💩
You are just repeating the same thing every single person has said so far. The only difference is that you are sympathetic [aka sucking up] toward sonship and his ridiculous twisting of the bible. Sonship likewise is sucking in the sympathy.
You're the worst Bible twister in this forum, right next to divegeester.
