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11 Feb 22
@kellyjay saidI’m sure you’re aware many different “kinds” of love exist. The Resurrected Jesus Christ demonstrated this when He was talking to Peter and asked Peter if Peter loved Him.
As I said, feeling comes and goes.
1 Corinthians 13
English Standard Version
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I ha ...[text shortened]... fully known.
So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
I was focusing on romantic love, which may be the most unstable kind of love if the initial feeling of love, which may better be termed infatuation or attraction, does not survive the process of getting to know one another.
I think much more stable forms of love can be found within a family (parent to child and child to parent, in particular) and from Christian to God.
11 Feb 22
@pb1022 saidThere are a few words in scripture that English translated into one word, which dilutes the text into not being as precise. Love and Hell come to mind.
I’m sure you’re aware many different “kinds” of love exist. The Resurrected Jesus Christ demonstrated this when He was talking to Peter and asked Peter if Peter loved Him.
I was focusing on romantic love, which may be the most unstable kind of love if the initial feeling of love, which may better be termed infatuation or attraction, does not survive the process of getting t ...[text shortened]... ound within a family (parent to child and child to parent, in particular) and from Christian to God.
There are a few words translated into love, "AGAPE Unconditional," "PHILEO Friendship," "EROS intimacy between a husband and a wife" there are others as well.
So if a loving God creates a world where love is possible, what must be true in it, and what cannot be true in it?
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11 Feb 22
@divegeester saidPutting someone's welfare above your own is certainly an act of altruism. I don't think that altruism is negated by being preprogrammed or instinctive. The outcome is still the same. If anything parental love/care is the purest form of altruism.
Absolutely. Although it has been asserted in this forum that loving and caring for one’s own children is altruism.
11 Feb 22
@divegeester saidReal not an illusion
What do you mean by “if love were honest” in this context?
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13 Feb 22
@KellyJay
Love may be a choice. But the though the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak.
We are fallen and love ourselves the most.
So we need Christ's salvation.
I recently wrote a song to those verses in First Cor. 13 on love.
.https://soundcloud.com/jack-wilmore/love-suffers-long-1-cor-134-8
13 Feb 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidNot sure I agree with that. Altruistic behaviour between unrelated people would seem to me to be purer. Caring for your own bloodline has a selfish component, does it not?
Putting someone's welfare above your own is certainly an act of altruism. I don't think that altruism is negated by being preprogrammed or instinctive. The outcome is still the same. If anything parental love/care is the purest form of altruism.
13 Feb 22
@avalanchethecat saidI agree that bloodline love is good, but it isn't diminished compared to someone carrying for a stranger or friend. There is no greater love when someone is willing to lay down their life for another. Some people care more about their addictions or life choices than the needs of their families. Bloodlines don't necessarily mean altruistic care will happen, but it does show that where we think it should, without a doubt, isn't always true. I believe even Jesus pointed that out as well in the book of Matthew.
Not sure I agree with that. Altruistic behaviour between unrelated people would seem to me to be purer. Caring for your own bloodline has a selfish component, does it not?
Matthew 5:46
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
13 Feb 22
@kellyjay saidI'm not saying it's diminished, what I'm saying is that it's more, um, obvious? More understandable, if you will. I'm sure very many of us would lay down our lives for our children. Fewer of us, I think, would do so for a friend. Fewer still for a stranger. If such a thing can be quantified, I'd say the rarer altruistic act is the 'purer'.
I agree that bloodline love is good, but it isn't diminished compared to someone carrying for a stranger or friend. There is no greater love when someone is willing to lay down their life for another. Some people care more about their addictions or life choices than the needs of their families. Bloodlines don't necessarily mean altruistic care will happen, but it does show t ...[text shortened]... if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
13 Feb 22
1 edit
@avalanchethecat saidAgree that it is rarer, but it is still the same thing.
I'm not saying it's diminished, what I'm saying is that it's more, um, obvious? More understandable, if you will. I'm sure very many of us would lay down our lives for our children. Fewer of us, I think, would do so for a friend. Fewer still for a stranger. If such a thing can be quantified, I'd say the rarer altruistic act is the 'purer'.
13 Feb 22
@kellyjay saidYes, the same, only more so.
Agree that it is rarer, but it is still the same thing.
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13 Feb 22
1 edit
@avalanchethecat saidA father running into a burning building to save their own child is primarily an act of instinctive love. It is the instinctiveness of the altruism that makes it purer.
Not sure I agree with that. Altruistic behaviour between unrelated people would seem to me to be purer. Caring for your own bloodline has a selfish component, does it not?
A stranger runs into a burning building to save another stranger aspires to the pure altruism of the father who is far less likely to put themselves first and reconsider their heroic act. - I'd like to think I'd enter a burning building to rescue a stranger if no better options were forthcoming, but may very well abandon the attempt if the flames were too high. I suspect a father would be more willing to brave the flames and have less concern for their own welfare, such is the potency of their altruism.
Edit: The above though is splitting hairs. Both acts are altruistic and admirable.
13 Feb 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAs you say, you'd expect the father to be willing and have less concern for their own welfare when rescuing their child. You may well abandon your own attempt to rescue a stranger. That person who didn't abandon their own attempt to rescue a stranger, even if the flames were too high, would surely be showing more, or purer, altruism, wouldn't they?
A father running into a burning building to save their own child is primarily an act of instinctive love. It is the instinctiveness of the altruism that makes it purer.
A stranger runs into a burning building to save another stranger aspires to the pure altruism of the father who is far less likely to put themselves first and reconsider their heroic act. - I'd like ...[text shortened]... brave the flames and have less concern for their own welfare, such is the potency of their altruism.
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13 Feb 22
@avalanchethecat saidI would say such a person is amazing and had matched the pure altruism instinctively given by a parent to a child. A rare thing indeed.
As you say, you'd expect the father to be willing and have less concern for their own welfare when rescuing their child. You may well abandon your own attempt to rescue a stranger. That person who didn't abandon their own attempt to rescue a stranger, even if the flames were too high, would surely be showing more, or purer, altruism, wouldn't they?
13 Feb 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIndeed. It seems like an even more admirable sacrifice because of the absence of familial bond, yes?
I would say such a person is amazing and had matched the pure altruism instinctively given by a parent to a child. A rare thing indeed.