How would a God of Love, create a world where love is possible?

@avalanchethecat said
Indeed. It seems like an even more admirable sacrifice because of the absence of familial bond, yes?

You tricky fellow.

The stranger would probably have a fair dollop of adrenalin pumping through them which is not so admirable as altruistic love.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You tricky fellow.

The stranger would probably have a fair dollop of adrenalin pumping through them which is not so admirable as altruistic love.

I'm thinking that the father would probably also be hopped up on maximum adrenaline. Be a very cool customer if he weren't!

@avalanchethecat said
I'm thinking that the father would probably also be hopped up on maximum adrenaline. Be a very cool customer if he weren't!

If we were to find a scenario where adrenalin were removed completely from the equation, then the altruistic instinct would be more potent in the parent and unmatched in its intensity by very few strangers, who had a cool head and plenty of thinking time.

An altruistic act is where the primary motivator is the interest of somebody else over and above one's own. Nowhere is that better exemplified than in a parent, husband, wife etc.

@avalanchethecat said
Indeed. It seems like an even more admirable sacrifice because of the absence of familial bond, yes?

This is why what Jesus did is so amazing; He did for those that hate him, wanted nothing to do with Him, and were guilty of evil, taking all of that upon Himself, making the offer for forgiveness even though most would reject it.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
If we were to find a scenario where adrenalin were removed completely from the equation, then the altruistic instinct would be more potent in the parent and unmatched in its intensity by very few strangers, who had a cool head and plenty of thinking time.

An altruistic act is where the primary motivator is the interest of somebody else over and above one's own. Nowhere is that better exemplified than in a parent, husband, wife etc.

Oh I disagree. In the case of a parent, husband, wife &c I detect an element of compulsion. Performing an altruistic act to the benefit of a stranger seems to me to be a far better exemplar.

@avalanchethecat said
Oh I disagree. In the case of a parent, husband, wife &c I detect an element of compulsion. Performing an altruistic act to the benefit of a stranger seems to me to be a far better exemplar.

I would query your use of 'compulsion' and require you to elaborate in precisely 26 words.

A stranger performing an altruistic act is indeed a beautiful thing, but a thing best exemplified (in its purest form) when coming from a place of unconditional love, such as that held by a parent.

One might say, "that stranger helped that person like a mother might her child." One is unlikely to say, "That mother helped her child like a kindly stranger might help another stranger." Parental love sets the standard when it comes to selfless altruism.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I would query your use of 'compulsion' and require you to elaborate in precisely 26 words.

A stranger performing an altruistic act is indeed a beautiful thing, but a thing best exemplified (in its purest form) when coming from a place of unconditional love, such as that held by a parent.

One might say, "that stranger helped that person like a mother might her ...[text shortened]... er might help another stranger." Parental love sets the standard when it comes to selfless altruism.

I think the standard is higher than even that.

@kellyjay said
I agree that bloodline love is good, but it isn't diminished compared to someone carrying for a stranger or friend. There is no greater love when someone is willing to lay down their life for another. Some people care more about their addictions or life choices than the needs of their families. Bloodlines don't necessarily mean altruistic care will happen, but it does show t ...[text shortened]... if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

Ya, tax collectors have never been popular, have they? 2000 years ago or last Thursday, it's the same old same old.

Perhaps the ultimate act of altruism would be to enter a burning building to save a tax collector....

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I would query your use of 'compulsion' and require you to elaborate in precisely 26 words.

A stranger performing an altruistic act is indeed a beautiful thing, but a thing best exemplified (in its purest form) when coming from a place of unconditional love, such as that held by a parent.

One might say, "that stranger helped that person like a mother might her ...[text shortened]... er might help another stranger." Parental love sets the standard when it comes to selfless altruism.

Sense of obligation, urgency, must do whatever is necessary regardless of cost to self to protect one's offspring. For a stranger?... Above and beyond. Pure altruism.

26 😛

@avalanchethecat said
Sense of obligation, urgency, must do whatever is necessary regardless of cost to self to protect one's offspring. For a stranger?... Above and beyond. Pure altruism.

26 😛

Doff of the hat.

@kellyjay said
I think the standard is higher than even that.

A platitude not borne out by your religious dogma KellyJay.

An almighty sovereign god who knows in advance that he will personally be burning people alive for eternity, under the presupposition that the billions will “choose” to be there is precisely the opposite of altruism.

@avalanchethecat said
Sense of obligation, urgency, must do whatever is necessary regardless of cost to self to protect one's offspring. For a stranger?... Above and beyond. Pure altruism.

26 😛

Altruism is doing good for another person with no benefit to one’s self.

@Ghost of a Duke; Looking after one’s own genetic material does not fit this definition in my opinion.

@divegeester said
A platitude not borne out by your religious dogma KellyJay.

An almighty sovereign god who knows in advance that he will personally be burning people alive for eternity, under the presupposition that the billions will “choose” to be there is precisely the opposite of altruism.

Jesus laid down His life for those that hated him, those that caused burning buildings with people in them, those that murdered, raped, stolen, lied, did all manner of things, the self-righteous, those that are prideful, all of us sinners of every stripe, for every evil thing we did. He did it knowing some would still reject Him, and it is Love that reaches for us, not demanding we get right by doing things to be accepted by Him. Hell was made for Satan; it is a place away from the Kingdom of Love where evil will no longer be able to touch the whole of the new creation. I think it is a thing of mercy God has offered us a choice and allows us to make them; even if He doesn't want us to refuse Him, He honors what we want.

In the end, a Kingdom of Love will be filled with those that put Love above their own lives.

@kellyjay said
Jesus laid down His life for those that hated him, those that caused burning buildings with people in them, those that murdered, raped, stolen, lied, did all manner of things, the self-righteous, those that are prideful, all of us sinners of every stripe, for every evil thing we did. He did it knowing some would still reject Him, and it is Love that reaches for us, not deman ...[text shortened]... ant.

In the end, a Kingdom of Love will be filled with those that put Love above their own lives.

How is it “love” to purposefully and with aforethought, create a place of eternal torture, write about it obscurely and almost nonsensically in an ancient manuscript and then call it “choice” when those people who find the ideal of being tortured for eternity by the very same person who says love mercy love mercy love … find it utterly incomprehensible amoral nonsence?

@divegeester said
Altruism is doing good for another person with no benefit to one’s self.

@Ghost of a Duke; Looking after one’s own genetic material does not fit this definition in my opinion.

Not quite.

An altruistic act is where the primary motivator is the wellbeing of somebody else. So, for example, if you were to rescue somebody from a burning building and put your own life at risk, your altruistic act isn't negated by any sense of pride you might feel afterward, or if you had made the most of the opportunity and toasted some marshmallows for your personal enjoyment along the way. (As your primary motivator was still putting someone else's interests above your own).

And a parent rescuing a child isn't a case of rescuing 'genetic material' but a case of selfless love, a pure expression of altruism if ever there was one, comparable perhaps with the atonement of Christ.