For theists and atheists:
Suppose your particular version of God existed and had unequivocally shown you that all non-believers in him would be tortured in hell for eternity by being burnt alive.
What would you do?
I mean literally tomorrow, the next day and the day after, what would you be actually doing based on having that knowledge which to totally believed to be true? Would your life be different?
27 Jan 21
@divegeester saidThis is not a question an atheist can answer.
For theists and atheists:
Suppose your particular version of God existed and had unequivocally shown you that all non-believers in him would be tortured in hell for eternity by being burnt alive.
What would you do?
I mean literally tomorrow, the next day and the day after, what would you be actually doing based on having that knowledge which to totally believed to be true? Would your life be different?
Pardon me, but it reminds me of a question dj2becker once asked me: [my paraphrasing...] "If you believed in God and knew that everything taught about God was true, what justification would you have for continuing to be an atheist?"
27 Jan 21
@divegeester saidYes, life would be different.
For theists and atheists:
Suppose your particular version of God existed and had unequivocally shown you that all non-believers in him would be tortured in hell for eternity by being burnt alive.
What would you do?
I mean literally tomorrow, the next day and the day after, what would you be actually doing based on having that knowledge which to totally believed to be true? Would your life be different?
If God proved without any doubt that He existed, then believing in Him shouldn't be an issue at all, which would nullify the hell option.
After the belief issue comes the certain desire to then obey God in all ways, because you know, again, that He's there and wants obedience.
(It's only the doubt that He exists which allows one to willingly disobey God. It's the mind's way to cope. Otherwise, obedience would be seen in all believers....all the time).
This is why God created faith, because knowing for sure that He's there is too much to handle, too overwhelming.
27 Jan 21
@chaney3 saidThe "faith" of most walk-the-walk Christians is, for all psychological intents and purposes, the same as "knowing for sure that He's there". And it certainly doesn't strike them as "too much to handle, too overwhelming". Indeed, they feel empowered and inspired by it. You sound like you've never discussed "faith" with Christians.
This is why God created faith, because knowing for sure that He's there is too much to handle, too overwhelming.
@fmf saidMy question is one of moral principle and is obliquely targeted at sonship as he refused to answer it in his thread.
This is not a question an atheist can answer.
Pardon me, but it reminds me of a question dj2becker once asked me: [my paraphrasing...] "If you believed in God and knew that everything taught about God was true, what justification would you have for continuing to be an atheist?"
Knowing that dozens of your immediate neighbours, hundreds and thousands in your town and possibly billions across the earth were going to be burnt alive forever if they didn’t accept your god, surely a person would be evangelising like mad!?
@chaney3 saidI’ve not made my point clear, sorry. See my post above.
Yes, life would be different.
If God proved without any doubt that He existed, then believing in Him shouldn't be an issue at all, which would nullify the hell option.
After the belief issue comes the certain desire to then obey God in all ways, because you know, again, that He's there and wants obedience.
(It's only the doubt that He exists which allows one to will ...[text shortened]... God created faith, because knowing for sure that He's there is too much to handle, too overwhelming.
This is a hypothetical question of moral principle levered by a scenario where you know for certain that your god will be burning people alive forever.
Would you be wasting your time posting lengthy blogs in this forum or out on the streets evangelising?
27 Jan 21
@divegeester saidI don't think sonship has much moral substance when it comes to the fate of anyone but himself. He eagerly awaits the 'end times' because he has already declared himself irrevocably saved and he clearly thinks his personal aspirations about him being 'deified' as a "godman" as soon as possible are more important than the supposed destruction of most other human beings, men, women and children.
My question is one of moral principle and is obliquely targeted at sonship as he refused to answer it in his thread.
@fmf saidIt appears that sonship doesn’t want to address my question either in this dedicated thread nor in one of his threads.
I don't think sonship has much moral substance when it comes to the fate of anyone but himself. He eagerly awaits the 'end times' because he has already declared himself irrevocably saved and he clearly thinks his personal aspirations about him being 'deified' as a "godman" as soon as possible are more important than the supposed destruction of most other human beings, men, women and children.
I wonder why that might be...
27 Jan 21
@divegeester saidIf this occurred, I would reconsider my version and definition of God...I cannot consider an all powerful being that tortures and burns sentient beings for all eternity to be a god, but rather a devil.
For theists and atheists:
Suppose your particular version of God existed and had unequivocally shown you that all non-believers in him would be tortured in hell for eternity by being burnt alive.
What would you do?
I mean literally tomorrow, the next day and the day after, what would you be actually doing based on having that knowledge which to totally believed to be true? Would your life be different?
How would it change my life? I would walk away from a belief system that paid homage and devotion to such a being...wait!...I did exactly that and discovered peace in its place.
@hakima saidYes I do understand that Hakima, and I agree with you.
If this occurred, I would reconsider my version and definition of God...I cannot consider an all powerful being that tortures and burns sentient beings for all eternity to be a god, but rather a devil.
How would it change my life? I would walk away from a belief system that paid homage and devotion to such a being...wait!...I did exactly that and discovered peace in its place.
but...
I am giving you a defined hypothetical situation where you are a believer, totally and wholeheartedly, in a God who does do this torture. I’m not asking you to approve of it but to work the scenario.
Scenario: In your mind you utterly believe that your God burns non believing persons alive for eternity. What do you do?
Do you spend your time blogging on websites or do you get out there and evangelise?
28 Jan 21
@divegeester saidI think this is a great question, however I've tried asking similar questions before and found that religious people are incapable of honestly answering such questions. For some reason they are not able to think outside the box and visualize realistic hypothetical scenarios. The cause for this, according to my theory, is pure fear -- conscious and unconscious fear. This theory is supported by a saying once told by a wise old man: "Religion is the enslavement of the mind."
For theists and atheists:
Suppose your particular version of God existed and had unequivocally shown you that all non-believers in him would be tortured in hell for eternity by being burnt alive.
What would you do?
I mean literally tomorrow, the next day and the day after, what would you be actually doing based on having that knowledge which to totally believed to be true? Would your life be different?
28 Jan 21
@divegeester saidBeing a devout agnostic , I have no "particular version of god " .
For theists and atheists:
Suppose your particular version of God existed and had unequivocally shown you that all non-believers in him would be tortured in hell for eternity by being burnt alive.
What would you do?
I mean literally tomorrow, the next day and the day after, what would you be actually doing based on having that knowledge which to totally believed to be true? Would your life be different?
Following logic I would go on as I have every other day of my life .
Even I were to confirm that any god is unknowable and/or impossible to actually comprehend , my life would go on .
I don't know if my life would be different .
@caissad4 saidSo if you “knew” (Hypothetically speaking) that a God existed and that it would be burning people who didn’t believe in it, alive for eternity, you would NOT be out there trying to get people saved?
I don't know if my life would be different .
You see the issue I have here is with people like @sonship who spend a huge amount of time on this forum writing pages and pages and pages of stuff for no one to actually read, when he ignores the thousands of unbelieving people in his local community who will be burnt alive for not believing in his version of the loving jesus.
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28 Jan 21
1 edit
@divegeester saidIf the person was of sound mind they would surely recognise that such a God, who would burn people alive for not believing in Him, was clearly the manufacture of flawed human beings trying to scare people into belief. Such a person should abandon that particular faith, not evangelise others to join.
Knowing that dozens of your immediate neighbours, hundreds and thousands in your town and possibly billions across the earth were going to be burnt alive forever if they didn’t accept your god, surely a person would be evangelising like mad!?