Originally posted by KellyJayI think that is a load of garbage, the idea we have somehow fallen. That is more religious hype scam scare stories.
You realize that in scripture we have broken from God's Kingdom? The fall
of man has us being as selfish as we so desire, and we can be very selfish.
When we fell we dropped into a kingdom led by demons, so no only have
we fallen away we have the demons leading us around at every attempt
to cause us to become father away from both God and each other.
...[text shortened]... pon the universe once and for all. In the mean time we
will see evil done to man by man.
Kelly
You look at stories like Isaac V Ab where Ab is given the command supposedly by god to off his son when said god would know full well the outcome and it would have been unspeakably cruel to play such a joke of old Ab, so it says, that is just another tale made up by men to scare the people and so control them better.
The bible is full of tales like that, clearly made up and not in the slightest the result of some supernatural being sticking its metaphorical nose in our affairs. It has apparently seen fit to stay out of our affairs for 2000 odd years now.
Originally posted by sonhouseThere is a nation Israel, whose history follows scripture. I get you don't
I think that is a load of garbage, the idea we have somehow fallen. That is more religious hype scam scare stories.
You look at stories like Isaac V Ab where Ab is given the command supposedly by god to off his son when said god would know full well the outcome and it would have been unspeakably cruel to play such a joke of old Ab, so it says, that is j ...[text shortened]... se in our affairs. It has apparently seen fit to stay out of our affairs for 2000 odd years now.
like idea, you don't believe. Personally, I don't care that you don't any
more than you do that I do believe. You asked I gave you my answer.
Kelly
Fabian,
You Typed
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I'm sure that you think this is true. Others, some christians, think you are beyond salvationand you will go to hell.
It's doesn't matter of what you believe. If you want to be a good person, it is how you behave.
You are good, some others though calling themselves christians are not. It is easy to respect you, because you respect others. And that's what matters.
Some kill others with their bible in on hand and a gun in the other. So there is not a guarantee that your christian beliefs will help you. Kindness and respect always do.
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Being kind and loving is not what gives a Christian eternal life. Putting faith in Christ for forgiveness of sin and eternal life and asking the Lord Jesus to be Lord of your life is the heart attitude that leads to salvation in Christ.
Second, being kind and loving is out of obedience to what God wants of Christians after they have put faith in Christ for salvation first.
It is hard in life to deal with our sin nature. But Christ came to save sinners. The bible shows that Christians will be a separated from the sin nature. But while on earth, Christians will have to struggle with doing right and sin. It is a battle.
Even Paul the Apostle told about his own struggle with sin. At the end of the chapter of Romans 7 he proclaims victory with choosing sin through Jesus. He gives God thanks.
King James Version
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Romans 7: 24, 25
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Fabian,
As for who to learn about or what to read. Didn't you say that you grew up in a Christian home. If so, start there. Read the bible for yourself. Study for yourself. Research for yourself.
And most certainly, pray to God whatever is on your heart. If you don't believe, then tell God that you don't believe the bible. Be honest with God about all your concerns and questions.
And ask God to help you find the truth for your eternal future. And you can add to that request, "if there is an eternal existence."
Pray to God from your heart. Seek God even if you don't know the answers for your life. You can pray in private. No human has to see you.
ThinkOfOne,
Does God not want 2 people who have never been married to anyone to have sex with each other when they are the same sex?
Isn't the sex between the 2 people considered sin by God? Then why would Jesus have any different view about the act? Jesus fulfilled the Law of God.
Fabian and Caljust,
One good reason to not look at how christians act sinfully is that a person can say to themselves. . .
I am discouraged in christians
Maybe God, the Father of Jesus, isn't real after all
If christians act like, then I don't want to be a christian
Is Christ real? I can't tell based how people that say they are christians, but act sinfully the way they do.
ETC. . .
AvalancheTheCat,
Concerning Matthew 7: 1-3
Go to study on those verses if you will
There is a website named: http://www.blueletterbible.org
Matthew 7 shows up at:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=7&t=KJV#s=936001
And for the first verse you can click on the TOOLS button to the left of verse 1 to see the selections available to study the verse on. Then do the same for verse 2 and 3. The Greek shows up under the Interlinear Tool selection.
Also, in the pop-up for the interlinear Greek, you can click on the PARSE button to find out more information on what "Judge" and "Judged" mean which are located the right of the words.
Originally posted by CalJustDoes this mean that you are suddenly changing your mind?
Jesus himself gave us the right, no, the obligation, to judge people on their behaviour: "By their fruits you will know them!"
Originally posted by FabianFnas
So, in your opinion, Jesus gave Hitler the right, no, the obligation, to judge jews?
Originally posted by CalJust
There are two separate principles involved here!:
- the prerogative to judge others
- the criteria by which we judge.
That you are not "obligated" to judge others, only within certain circumstances?
RJHinds are judging others, he is judging you too. He says that you are going to burn in hell eternity because you don't agree with him in every detail. He is not only judging you by his right, he is judging you by good old christian obligation.
Jesus said so, therefore it must be right, right?
Originally posted by KingOnPointNo, that is not a good reason.
Fabian and Caljust,
One good reason to not look at how christians act sinfully is that a person can say to themselves. . .
I am discouraged in christians
Maybe God, the Father of Jesus, isn't real after all
If christians act like, then I don't want to be a christian
Is Christ real? I can't tell based how people that say they are christians, but act sinfully the way they do.
ETC. . .
What you believe or not believe is not based on what OTHER people believe, or how they act.
Instead, it is based on your own personal experience with the divine.
The fact that so many Christians actually do NOT practice what they preach, should not discourage us from the fact that there IS, in fact, an underlying reality which is truth.
But we must all find that TRUTH in our own way.
Originally posted by KingOnPointI've tried that, with no success. God is silent, he doesn't say anything. I can pet him: silence. I can threat him: silence. I can ask him: silence. I can worship him: silence. I can give things and money to needing people: silence. All the time: silence.
Fabian,
As for who to learn about or what to read. Didn't you say that you grew up in a Christian home. If so, start there. Read the bible for yourself. Study for yourself. Research for yourself.
And most certainly, pray to God whatever is on your heart. If you don't believe, then tell God that you don't believe the bible. Be honest with God a ...[text shortened]... if you don't know the answers for your life. You can pray in private. No human has to see you.
The bible doesn't give me answers, only paradoxes. The quaran the same. The Vedas, the same. Where should I go to get answers? Answer: to myself, to my own thoughts, to my own reasoning.
When I see some christians acts, then I am sure that christianity is not the answer.
Originally posted by KellyJayFair enough. Further along, we'll know all about it, as the song goes.
There is a nation Israel, whose history follows scripture. I get you don't
like idea, you don't believe. Personally, I don't care that you don't any
more than you do that I do believe. You asked I gave you my answer.
Kelly
Originally posted by FabianFnasSorry, I don't really get your point - and I am NOT trying to be obtuse!
Does this mean that you are suddenly changing your mind?
That you are not "obligated" to judge others, only within certain circumstances?
RJHinds are judging others, he is judging [b]you too. He says that you are going to burn in hell eternity because you don't agree with him in every detail. He is not only judging you by his ...[text shortened]... b]you[/b] by good old christian obligation.
Jesus said so, therefore it must be right, right?[/b]
I don't think I changed my mind, but I DO think that one must exercise caution and restraint in judging others; otherwise you would end up being a perpetually critical sourpuss!
Probably the maxim applies: chose your battles. Some are worthwhile and others simply not important enough.
Ron Hinds is certainly entitled to judge me by his criteria. Whether these mean anything - and whether I should be worried by them - is another matter altogether.
Originally posted by CalJustOkay, I see. but aren't you watering out your earlier stand?
Sorry, I don't really get your point - and I am NOT trying to be obtuse!
I don't think I changed my mind, but I DO think that one must exercise caution and restraint in judging others; otherwise you would end up being a perpetually critical sourpuss!
Probably the maxim applies: chose your battles. Some are worthwhile and others simply not important eno ...[text shortened]... er these mean anything - and whether I should be worried by them - is another matter altogether.
You are obligated to judge, but you don't exercise your right to judge to anyone, only to those you chose to judge, and those you judge. You chose your battles. ...and?
You let RJHinds judge you, but you don't care about his judgement, so what is his point to judge you? I judge you, and you don't care. You judge me, and I don't care. So here we are, judging each other, and noone cares. Quite watered down to nothing, if you let me judge.
If you judge me I'll just say "Who are you to judge me?" And your answer will be:
"Because I am a christian, and therefore I am a better than you are, so that is why I can judge you!" then I say "You have a bad moral."
or
"I am christian and Jesus tells me to judge you!", then I say, "Then you are imprisoned by your Jesus and have lost your ability to think for yourself."
In either case Jesus has lost one soul, because judgements are not my cup of tea, I'm glad that I'm not a christian if I have to go around and judge others, losing friends in the process.
You will have your personal judgement of your judgement day. That's the judgement you should fear. Because if it turns out that you have misinterpreted your bible, then you will burn for eternal in hell.