i don't understand...

Originally posted by Valdorien
just thinking... it seems kinda wrong to say some of those things to so many people who believe in the bibl cause it seems like so many of it's twisted to fit a certain life style... that's all...

it's wrong? i don't see what point you are making. i am asking a question. how is my question invalid?

one could certainly argue just the opposite: that belief in the bible is twisted to fit a certain life style.

are you saying that because so many believe in the bible i am not justified in questioning their beliefs? certainly, if someone were to believe strongly in the bible and in their position, they would probably welcome the opportunity to debate me with the intention of making a fool of me, or perhaps with the intention of converting and educating me.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
well, for one, if those professing the Bible as their authority would actually take the time to read it without preconceptions, they would find a complete absence of support for their primary political cause in modern America--that life begins at conception. The Bible's position is clear and consistent: breath is life. Life, it would seem, begins at birth.

i don't want to seem dense, but i make little sense of this post. are you saying that the bible is an authority on the abortion issue? why should the bible be an authority on anything?

Originally posted by LemonJello
i am very sorry for your loss of a good friend who possessed much potential. i know a few who have committed suicide, and still to this day i fail to understand why and lament their passing.

however, i stand by my former post, and i disagree with your assertion that anyone who commits suicide must be 'mentally incompetent' and not accountable for ...[text shortened]... agree if you are saying that a depressed person is not morally responsible for their actions.

I am also very sad for you and for the fact that this disease is so pervasive that it even goes so far that two poeple on a chess site can lament about it. When i say mentally incomptetent i mean to say that they cannot be responsible for their actions. A person suffering from dementia should not be fined for forgetting to obtain a train ticket. He is not competent to do it. I do not imply that poeple suffering from depression are retarded or mentally inept. I have a friend and my brother as well who suffers from depression. They are rational, articulate however their feelings are not reasonable. They feel an inexplicable hatred of themselves that is completely unfounded. If either were to commit suicide they would be competent enough to write a letter, to minimise pain. However they are not competent to realise they are good poeple or to stop hating themselves.
It is not so much they must be mentally incompetent but that they are mentally incompetent because their thoughts which drive them to this end are purely irrational. Just as with women who suffer a similar depression after giving birth. If they kill their children their minds were so wrecked at the time they could not possibly be accountable. They cannot anticipate consequences, empathise, or rationalise.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Please explain the concept of "just war" as laid out in the Bible, with citations.

In truth, the concept of "just war" was brought into the Western Hemisphere with the Spanish "Requerimiento," not the Bible.

This is off subject, but....what's new? I was simply comparing murder and killing to make a point about suicide.

But since you asked, I found a couple of Biblical references suggesting that war is sometimes called for by God.


Joshua 11:23
So Joshua took the entire land, just as the LORD had directed Moses, and he gave it as an inheritance to Israel according to their tribal divisions. Then the land had rest from war.

Revelation 19:11
[ The Rider on the White Horse ] I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war.

Furthermore, the concept of just war was elucidated by St. Augustine 1600 years ago, and has been part of Christian thinking ever since.

From Chuck colson:
Augustine’s formulation was that it has to be, obviously, a just cause; it has to be a last resort, basically the only thing you can do; and it holds that the evil you will cause by the attack is less than the evil being righted — you can’t create more evil. There’s got to be a good chance of success, and, most importantly, civilian casualties have got to be limited: You cannot target civilians.
There have been many restraints on this. It’s one of the reasons the British clergy denounced their own government for the carpet bombing of German targets in the Second World War, because it went beyond the "just war" doctrine. I’m proud of the history of the Church, and the Christians throughout the centuries who have always defended the proper use of military force from a biblical perspective.


But beyond dropping names, and claiming authorities etc., what do you think? Is war ever a good idea?

Originally posted by Wulebgr
well, for one, if those professing the Bible as their authority would actually take the time to read it without preconceptions, they would find a complete absence of support for their primary political cause in modern America--that life begins at conception. The Bible's position is clear and consistent: breath is life. Life, it would seem, begins at birth.

I disagree Wooly.

And I don't think your conclusion is that of the mainstream church.

Life may have begun when God breathed life into Adam, but the Bible teaches that life is in the blood.


Leviticus 17:11
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

But no, this would not justify abortion as long as it is done before any blood cells are formed in the embryo.

Originally posted by Shopie13
www.hti.umich.edu/relig/kjv/

This will help you find any verse you want. You don't even need to own a Bible

hey wow thanx ^.^

Originally posted by LemonJello
it's wrong? i don't see what point you are making. i am asking a question. how is my question invalid?

one could certainly argue just the opposite: that belief in the bible is twisted to fit a certain life style.

are you saying that because so many believe in the bible i am not justified in questioning their beliefs? certainly, if someone ...[text shortened]... intention of making a fool of me, or perhaps with the intention of converting and educating me.

nono nohing like that... i'm questioning it too. i just wanna find out as much as i can about everything i guess. i'm sorry i didn't mean to offend you...

Originally posted by chinking58
I disagree Wooly.

And I don't think your conclusion is that of the mainstream church.

Life may have begun when God breathed life into Adam, but the Bible teaches that life is in the blood.


Leviticus 17:11
For the life of a c ...[text shortened]... g as it is done before any blood cells are formed in the embryo.

God understands that the purpose of blood is to carry oxygen to the cells. You prove my point: life is breath.