17 Sep 13
3 edits
But why do atheists spend so much time in a spirituality forum? I don't have anything against atheists whatsoever, in fact I have more in common with some than I do with most theists.
I've heard several arguments as to why they do, the most common I remember as being that many of them want to more or less, defend the freethinking world from the hateful Christians and chowder-headed religionists. Right. From the comfy confines of your armchair. It's interesting.
In my time here I've also noted that there is rarely shown any human interest in theism nor especially of the individuals who frequent is forum or their reasons for becoming theists. There is no genuine enquiry of the human condition in regard to the reason to believe, the causality.
I don't see anyone here saving the world from the theist or indeed saving the theist from themselves. I don't really see anything other than a mocking smugness often tinged with more than a hint of bitterness.
This forum is by no measure a 'litmus test' for the validity of any spiritual experience, religion or ideology. At best it is an online poor man's Speakers Corner and at worst it the playground we all grew up in. So if you are a confirmed atheist, why bother. It is interesting.
Originally posted by divegeesterIn my online experience, since 2007, many avowed atheists here and elsewhere remind me of Doubting Thomas: highly intelligent, well read and thoughtful people with questions that won't be satisfied by superficial answers. I respect them.
But why do atheists spend so much time in a spirituality forum? I don't have anything against atheists whatsoever, in fact I have more in common with some than I do with most theists.
I've heard several arguments as to why they do, the most common I remember as being that many of them want to more or less, defend the freethinking world from the hatefu ...[text shortened]... nd we all grew up in. So if you are a confirmed atheist, why bother. It is interesting.
I don't disagree with the observation you are making, however the smilie of Thomas is not entirely appropriate as Thomas was a disciple and already part of the faith; he is more representative of the doubting believer than an atheist, in fact I'm pretty sure most atheists wouldn't admit to identifying with Thomas in this scenario, at least not openly.
17 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterMocking smugness? Hint of bitterness?
But why do atheists spend so much time in a spirituality forum? I don't have anything against atheists whatsoever, in fact I have more in common with some than I do with most theists.
I've heard several arguments as to why they do, the most common I remember as being that many of them want to more or less, defend the freethinking world from the hatefu nd we all grew up in. So if you are a confirmed atheist, why bother. It is interesting.
Surely you're speaking of RJHinds spending so much time in the science forum, spewing his ignorance and defending the closed-minded world from the evil, godless freethinkers from the comfy confines of his armchair. Yes, interesting.
17 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by woodypusherRJHinds is hardly representative of this forum by any stretch, and as far as I'm aware is the sole voice of dissent in the Science forum. So obviously I'm not referring to him, however if you are noticing a comparison between his behaviour there and the atheist community here, then I would be happy to explore that with you.
Mocking smugness? Hint of bitterness?
Surely you're speaking of RJHinds spending so much time in the science forum, spewing his ignorance and defending the closed-minded world from the evil, godless freethinkers from the comfy confines of his armchair. Yes, interesting.
17 Sep 13
2 edits
Originally posted by divegeester"I don't disagree with the observation you are making, however the smilie of Thomas is not entirely appropriate as Thomas was a disciple and already part of the faith..."
I don't disagree with the observation you are making, however the smilie of Thomas is not entirely appropriate as Thomas was a disciple and already part of the faith; he is more representative of the doubting believer than an atheist, in fact I'm pretty sure most atheists wouldn't admit to identifying with Thomas in this scenario, at least not openly.
"A doubting Thomas is a skeptic who refuses to believe without direct personal experience—a reference to the Apostle Thomas, who refused to believe that the resurrected Jesus had appeared to the eleven other apostles, until he could see and feel the wounds received by Jesus on the cross. The episode is related in the Gospel of John, though not in the three synoptic Gospels." (wiki) (King James Version) text (John 20:24-29) is:
24. But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27. Then saith He to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. 29. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
Intent of the reference was to illustrate skepticism in seeking the truth.
17 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI disagree, Thomas was already converted, his disbelief was centred around the claim of someone witnessing the risen Christ. Wiki's description of a "doubting Thomas" is an irrelevancy, but I think you already know that. Nevertheless I respect your right to express your opinion that the atheists posting in this forum are typified by the disciple Thomas; I will be interested to see if they or others agree.
"I don't disagree with the observation you are making, however the smilie of Thomas is not entirely appropriate as Thomas was a disciple and already part of the faith..."
"A doubting Thomas is a skeptic who refuses to believe without direct personal experience—a reference to the Apostle Thomas, who refused to believe that the resurrected Jesus had a seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
Edit: I see that you edited out your claim regarding Thomas' conversion whilst I was writing.
17 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterYes, obviously I knew you weren't referring to him.. I was being sarcastic, merely pointing out the hypocrisy of this thread.
RJHinds is hardly representative of this forum by any stretch, and as far as I'm aware is the sole voice of dissent in the Science forum. So obviously I'm not referring to him, however if you are noticing a comparison between his behaviour there and the atheist community here, then I would be happy to explore that with you.
As far as his behavior there and atheists here, there is no real comparison. Atheists try to educate, Hinds tries to ignorate.
*Yes, I made that word up. I couldn't thing of an antonym for educate 🙂
17 Sep 13
3 edits
Originally posted by woodypusherA thread can't be hypocritical itself but the poster can, shall I assume you think I'm being hypocritical in my OP on the basis that RJHinds is an irritation in the Science forum?
Yes, obviously I knew you weren't referring to him.. I was being sarcastic, merely pointing out the hypocrisy of this thread.
To your edit: I agree there is no comparison. In fact the atheist viewpoint in this forum is most welcome, and I'm sure I speak for the majority of posting theists here (irrespective of the observations in my OP).
17 Sep 13
Originally posted by divegeesterAssume anything you want. But the hypocrisy I was pointing out was your one-sided complaint about atheists.
A thread can't be hypocritical itself but the poster can, shall I assume you think I'm being hypocritical in my OP on the basis that RJHinds is an irritation in the Science forum?
17 Sep 13
Originally posted by divegeesterIf the atheist viewpoint is most welcome, why do you care why they spend so much time here?
A thread can't be hypocritical itself but the poster can, shall I assume you think I'm being hypocritical in my OP on the basis that RJHinds is an irritation in the Science forum?
To your edit: I agree there is no comparison. In fact the atheist viewpoint in this forum is most welcome, and I'm sure I speak for the majority of posting theists here.
17 Sep 13
Originally posted by woodypusherI'm not complaining that atheists post in this forum, I am a believer in free speech. I am making an observation based on much (but by no means all) of the content and the tone of many of the posts.
If the atheist viewpoint is most welcome, why do you care why they spend so much time here?
17 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterEdit: Yes, realized it was off topic, extraneous and irrelevant. Healthy Skepticism is the characteristic I respect because it's a positive component of someone's search in any realm, irrespective of predispositions or hang ups or tentative beliefs.
I disagree, Thomas was already converted, his disbelief was centred around the claim of someone witnessing the risen Christ. Wiki's description of a "doubting Thomas" is an irrelevancy, but I think you already know that. Nevertheless I respect your right to express your opinion that the atheists posting in this forum are typified by the disciple Thomas; ...[text shortened]... dit: I see that you edited out your claim regarding Thomas' conversion whilst I was writing.
17 Sep 13
Originally posted by divegeesterSome theists here have obliquely mentioned personal experiences that cement their faith, but they are understandably reluctant to talk about them with a bunch of strangers. Also, there was once a skeptic admitting doubt and fear of death, but they got immediately flooded with the usual, evangelical 'turn to Jesus and it'll all be OK!' crap.
In my time here I've also noted that there is rarely shown any human interest in theism nor especially of the individuals who frequent is forum or their reasons for becoming theists.