I might be realizing I'm a deist

@moonbus said
Have you examined this need of yours that the question of origins be “taken care of”?

The question is, without doubt, interesting. But I don't feel the "need" to answer it to be strong, because the answer is clearly unknowable and there appear to be no consequences of not knowing, except in the minds of religious people.

@fmf said
The question is, without doubt, interesting. But I don't feel the "need" to answer it to be strong, because the answer is clearly unknowable and there appear to be no consequences of not knowing, except in the minds of religious people.

Yes, I agree that the question has a certain scientific interest, but I see no eschatological consequences, either for getting an answer or for leaving it unanswered. It is a peculiarly Judeo- Christian perspective that origins have eschatological significance and therefore that the question of origins must have an answer.

Personally I think it is more important where we are going, and whether we make this planet uninhabitable with our recklessness.

@divegeester said
I’m not the one preaching to others about moving them and the importance of th3 fruits of the spirit, you are.

More deflection. I know that because your reply had nothing to do with what I had said.

BTW, it's not "fruits" plural, it's fruit singular.

Perhaps someday you'll get around to reading Galatians 5:22 and Ephesians 5:9.

@moonbus said
Personally I think it is more important where we are going, and whether we make this planet uninhabitable with our recklessness.

Agreed. And ~ perhaps to that end ~ I think it's more important to try to understand the human condition rather than to worry about what supernatural punishments the human condition deserves according to religionists - at least in the cases of those outside their groups.

@fmf said
Agreed. And ~ perhaps to that end ~ I think it's more important to try to understand the human condition rather than to worry about what supernatural punishments the human condition deserves according to religionists - at least in the cases of those outside their groups.

But if, as you say, you might be realizing you're a deist, then that infers a prime mover, which in turn means that the human condition must be understood relative to the nature of that deity.

A standard with regards to both the physical universe and things "supernatural" must be acknowledged.

The "prime mover" makes the rules. The violation of those rules has consequences. Ex post facto logic.

@secondson saidA standard with regards to both the physical universe and things "supernatural" must be acknowledged.The "prime mover" makes the rules. The violation of those rules has consequences. Ex post facto logic.

There is no supernatural or ‘rules’ from a prime mover within deism. You’re barking up the wrong tree.

@secondson said
But if, as you say, you might be realizing you're a deist, then that infers a prime mover, which in turn means that the human condition must be understood relative to the nature of that deity.

A standard with regards to both the physical universe and things "supernatural" must be acknowledged.

The "prime mover" makes the rules. The violation of those rules has consequences. Ex post facto logic.

You think like a theist.

@proper-knob said
There is no supernatural or ‘rules’ from a prime mover within deism. You’re barking up the wrong tree.

Like you know. Apparently deism is lost on you.

If there is a supreme being, then the flaw in deism is the idea that after creating everything and setting into motion the material and spiritual universe, and setting the stage as it were, the said being left it in chaos.

The material universe, and the spiritual, are governed by rules that shape reality.

As I said above, the violation of those rules has consequences. Ex post facto logic.

@fmf said
You think like a theist.

If you begin to think like a deist FMF, the next logical step is theism.

Consider the impact your thought progression from agnostic atheism to deism implies. From out of faulty logic(darkness) into reasoned conceptualization(light). Spiritually and metaphorically speaking.

@secondson said
Like you know. Apparently deism is lost on you.

If there is a supreme being, then the flaw in deism is the idea that after creating everything and setting into motion the material and spiritual universe, and setting the stage as it were, the said being left it in chaos.

The material universe, and the spiritual, are governed by rules that shape reality.

As I said above, the violation of those rules has consequences. Ex post facto logic.

What a load of tosh. You don’t get to decide what deism is you nutter.

@secondson said
If you begin to think like a deist FMF, the next logical step is theism.

Consider the impact your thought progression from agnostic atheism to deism implies. From out of faulty logic(darkness) into reasoned conceptualization(light). Spiritually and metaphorically speaking.

FMF started as a theist, before moving towards atheism. Can I also claim that a progression from faulty logic into a reasoned conceptualization?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
FMF started as a theist, before moving towards atheism. Can I also claim that a progression from faulty logic into a reasoned conceptualization?

No one starts as a theist; atheism is the default position.

So far as I know, FMF did not aririve at theism through logic, faulty or otherwise, but by upbringing and lack of exposure to alternatives. FMF will correct me if I misrepresent his case.

@fmf said
Agreed. And ~ perhaps to that end ~ I think it's more important to try to understand the human condition rather than to worry about what supernatural punishments the human condition deserves according to religionists - at least in the cases of those outside their groups.

Do I correctly surmise that you have become disenchanted [sic] with the dogma and ‘fairy tale’ aspect of Christianity, and you want to see what can still be salvaged of religion without those elements? Hence, drifting towards deistic, non-denominational, non-dogmatic religion?

@secondson said
If you begin to think like a deist FMF, the next logical step is theism.

Consider the impact your thought progression from agnostic atheism to deism implies. From out of faulty logic(darkness) into reasoned conceptualization(light). Spiritually and metaphorically speaking.

I don't think you have properly read or understood what I have revealed about myself on this thread or what I have said on pretty much any thread that has touched upon my agnosticism over the last year while you have been active. If you say something a bit more on target, I will engage it.

@divegeester said
The only person here “taking the piss” is you. How on Earth is the OP or the subsequent posts by FMF “treating Christians badly”?

It's just his standard MO, just like you.

He rarely, and I do mean rarely, posts anything unless he can run someone down.

It's all part of the outdated "forum combat" mantra you both subscribe to.