24 Nov 05
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeRB said what the Bible had to say about getting to Heaven....learn to read instead of philosophizing and find the answer yourself....RB even quoted what the verse said....simple: either accept Christ as Savior, or spend eternity seperated from God in whatever you want to call "Hell"....either a fiery lake where there is gnashing of teeth, a conscience of darkness knowing true seperation from God for eternity (forever), sadness eternal......take your pick......
So Shavixmir is going to hell, eh?
How much distasteful, credulous, metaphysical absurdity can you fundamentalist nutters swallow?
Look, life is tough. Maybe, in some way we don't understand, it all makes sense in some ineffable metaphysical realm. But where do you guys get off insulting others by confidently declaring they are going to hell, sta ...[text shortened]... hold your beliefs. So acquire some bloody modesty and fellow-feeling, you psychopathic lunatics!
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by vistesdThat Methodist minister did his congregation a disservice by telling such a "story"....it gives people a reason to "eat, drink, and be merry" in the last days, as in the days of Noah, in the false hope that no matter what all the good they did on earth, it still will not buy one's way into Heaven according to the scriptures.....
A Lutheran pastor once told this parable, which I found delightful (remember, it’s only a story!).
A man died and found himself standing before the “pearly gates.” St. Peter was there to welcome him. The man began his confession of faith and what he had done with his life, but Peter cut him off: “That’s fine, that’s fine. Look—over there to the ...[text shortened]... left and walked away…
(Note: This story reminds me of C.S. Lewis’ The Great Divorce.)
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by stockenWhat you are suggesting, and perhaps hoping for, is to save yourself which one cannot do.....the other two suggestions you make about God would make a good science fiction book.....
[b]If you reject the scripture then look within yourself.
This is the most sane comment in any of these threads I've read so far.
I now believe that God exists though. And I think there are two possibilities: 1) He's really a sadistic creature. He created us with enough knowledge and senses to recognise the need for criticism and questioning of ...[text shortened]... ions he will simply shut us down.
(Perhaps this belongs in another thread, but what the ****)[/b]
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by chancremechanicYeah, do as CM says:
RB said what the Bible had to say about getting to Heaven....learn to read instead of philosophizing and find the answer yourself....RB even quoted what the verse said....simple: either accept Christ as Savior, or spend eternity seperated from God in whatever you want to call "Hell"....either a fiery lake where there is gnashing of teeth, a conscie ...[text shortened]... owing true seperation from God for eternity (forever), sadness eternal......take your pick......
Swallow the bulls**t hook, line and sinker - DON'T learn to think for yourself.
Become a sheep and enter the flock of woolly-headed God-botherers.
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by howardgeeYou fail to see the irony of your ststement. Christians, as well as non-Christians do have a choice to "think for themselves". That's why God did not create automotons, robots, or humanoids which would/could not have the freedom to think for themselves.....one thinks for oneself by deciding to either acept Christ as Savior or not....that's "thinking for yourself", right Howard?
Yeah, do as CM says:
Swallow the bulls**t hook, line and sinker - DON'T learn to think for yourself.
Become a sheep and enter the flock of woolly-headed God-botherers.
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by chancremechanicSo what did you mean when you said;
You fail to see the irony of your ststement. Christians, as well as non-Christians do have a choice to "think for themselves". That's why God did not create automotons, robots, or humanoids which would/could not have the freedom to think for themselves.....one thinks for oneself by deciding to either acept Christ as Savior or not....that's "thinking for yourself", right Howard?
"learn to read instead of philosophizing"?
Surely this implies that you read and accept the bible at face value, rather than thinking for yourself.
Is this not what you were advising?
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by howardgeeNo, I read the Bible, think for myself, but believe it or not, if you are one with God, He will guide you through the scriptures; He may not lead you in a straight line because He wants us to search Him out. Narrow is the road to salvation; wide is the avenue to Hell, and it is paved with good intentions. I think for myself, form my opinions, but ultimately believe the Bible to be the final authority on anything under the sun, from raising children, marriage, dealing with your fellow man, etc. I fall short every day as evidenced by the way I tell you to pull your head out of your arse. A good Christian would not do that. I am a weak human who is trying to lean.
So what did you mean when you said;
"learn to read instead of philosophizing"?
Surely this implies that you read and accept the bible at face value, rather than thinking for yourself.
Is this not what you were advising?
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by howardgeeI think you are just too dim to figure me out, Howard. I am such a complex person that my wife has trouble keeping up with me; you stand no chance. Just stay on the elementary level of the topic of God, rapists, child molestors, and everything that makes the world what it is that makes you satisfied and you'll be OK while you're here on earth. After life, without the salvation of Christ, it gets complicated, and you won't have the tools to compete....I suggest you read the New Teastament, startinmg with John, and see what you are missing...good luck
You are so full of contradiction (or is it sh*t?), that it is funny.
You claim to think for yourself, but then admit to invariably believing the balls written in the book of lies (aka bible).
Your so-called thought process must be along the lines of "I think I will believe whatever the bible tells me to".
No wonder you are so full of contradiction, trying to live your life by that monstrously incoherent tome.
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by fooeyargumentum ad ignorantium
Does jesus read Spirituality posts on RHP ? If not, and unless any of you godfearers squeal when you get up there, there's a good chance he may squeeze in. If so, what is jesus' rating, and does he ask dad for divine inspriation (or cheating) when he gets pinned ?
Either way. If the BS that is spouted by most christians is indicative of the level of conversation in heaven, I'd be happier in the warm place, even if it does entail eternal torture.
24 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by vistesdAn honest question - why must every one of these stories take an anti-organised religion stance? This one, in particular, seems to be very relativistic.
A Lutheran pastor once told this parable, which I found delightful (remember, it’s only a story!).
A man died and found himself standing before the “pearly gates.” St. Peter was there to welcome him. The man began his confession of faith and what he had done with his life, but Peter cut him off: “That’s fine, that’s fine. Look—over there to the ...[text shortened]... left and walked away…
(Note: This story reminds me of C.S. Lewis’ The Great Divorce.)
LH
EDIT: Reminded me of a similar story I read recently:
http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=109&art_id=29430
24 Nov 05
Originally posted by lucifershammerBy these stories, you mean my stories (the ones that I come up with)? I think you’re probably right, and I’ll think about it, but I undoubtedly do have an acquired distrust of organized religion when it tells what I must think in order to “be saved.” On the other hand, I think that many of the religions in their mythologies, symbolism, allegories, etc. have provided us with some deep and marvelous ways of thinking about and grappling with the questions of our existence.
An honest question - why must every one of these stories take an anti-organised religion stance? This one, in particular, seems to be very relativistic.
LH
EDIT: Reminded me of a similar story I read recently:
http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=109&art_id=29430
I heard this story within the context of organized religion while a member of the church.
Have you read C.S. Lewis’ The Great Divorce?
I enjoyed the story you cited. 🙂
25 Nov 05
Originally posted by chancremechanicWell, Chance, I think we probably disagree profoundly across-the-board on the whole religious question—especially since I am no longer a Christian, so I don’t share your beliefs about salvation, for instance, or that the Bible is the “word of God.” I’m not trying to buy my way anywhere; then again, I’m not big on the “eat, drink and merry” thing either—age perhaps… 🙂
That Methodist minister did his congregation a disservice by telling such a "story"....it gives people a reason to "eat, drink, and be merry" in the last days, as in the days of Noah, in the false hope that no matter what all the good they did on earth, it still will not buy one's way into Heaven according to the scriptures.....
25 Nov 05
2 edits
Originally posted by shavixmirOf course. You just said you reject being saved. ("There is no other name by which we can be saved."😉
Am I going to hell?
We are born with a nature that ensures a certain destiny. It doesn't take long before our behavior gives evidence to what we think of living God's way (I never had to teach my kids how to be selfish or mean!).
Nothing is more clear in the history of mankind than the fact that we each need to be 'saved'.
So, if you reject being saved by the one and only savior, then you have decided your destiny. Like a drowning man who rejects the lifeguard has determined his fate.
The really good news is that one can change his mind after rejecting Jesus! He is always ready, willing and able to listen to the repentent! Interestingly, once a person chooses Jesus, admitting his need to be saved and letting Jesus do His saving work, he can not UNrepent! Once God hears your sincere cry for help, he not only forgives your sins because Jesus will have applied His atoning work to your need, but He writes your name in the Book of Life, seals your salvation forever, and nothing can get you out of His hand; He will not let you go!
This warning from Haggai 1:5 means a lot to me. 5 Now this is what the LORD Almighty says: "Give careful thought to your ways."
God does leave the responsibility for the decision in your hands. But goes out of His way to encourage the decision that is best for you. He says 'consider your ways', or 'think about it!'.
EDIT Note: I did not intentionally insert that smiley, and I can't get rid of it either. Sorry.
26 Nov 05
Originally posted by chinking58The really good news is that one can change his mind after rejecting Jesus! He is always ready, willing and able to listen to the repentent! Interestingly, once a person chooses Jesus, admitting his need to be saved and letting Jesus do His saving work, he can not UNrepent! Once God hears your sincere cry for help, he not only forgives your sins because Jesus will have applied His atoning work to your need, but He writes your name in the Book of Life, seals your salvation forever, and nothing can get you out of His hand; He will not let you go!
Of course. You just said you reject being saved. ("There is no other name by which we can be saved."😉
We are born with a nature that ensures a certain destiny. It doesn't take long before our behavior gives evidence to what we think of living God's way (I never had to teach my kids how to be selfish or mean!).
Nothing is more clear in the history ...[text shortened]... IT Note: I did not intentionally insert that smiley, and I can't get rid of it either. Sorry.[/b]
I find this hard to agree with. Take howardgee for example. People's minds are always changing.