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26 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywilljust to clarify, was jesus cleansing sins from the past or the sins of past and future?in what way is dying on a cross helping
There are many aspects of the benefit of Christ's death. One is the shedding of His redeeming blood to cleanse us from every sin.
But another is that when we are united with Him the old is crucified with Him. And a totally new beginning is obtained.
What we have become as fallen sinners ...[text shortened]... ment. It is termination and starting all over again with God.
must go again for a moment.
it still seems like god choose a purely arbitrary method for sins to be absolved. why crucifixion? when he created man he may have given us free will but within certain guidelines, there is a limit to what we can and cannot do. so why not limit our capacity to do evil. for us to know evil means it must have been in gods mind too. otherwise we become the creator. if god forgives and sinners go to heaven does that mean there is sin in heaven? if there is no sin in heaven it means we have had our capacity to do sin removed, so why didnt he just do that in the first place.
"fallen sinners cannot be healed" what is a fallen sinner? is a "new life" the after life?
"People who commit suicide realize that the only good thing for them is to cease to exist - to die."
"In a way Jesus's death on the cross makes all suicides obsolete. I am crucified with Christ and raised again with Christ. It is not self improvement. It is termination and starting all over again with God" why is the only good thing for them to do is die? is that because they have sinned? im very confused on this one.
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26 Jan 12
Originally posted by Rajk999im always up for some god related chatting. although i dont feel my question was derogatory, no offence was meant, i was not using those words to mock or incite. its just something i feel quite strongly about.
Lol .. interesting. That what most people dont like about me.
Anyway if you really interested in chatting about God, I would prefer if you start another thread and ask your questions in the opening post MINUS the derogatory remarks like 'God is pointless' etc. This one really does not sound like a post those interested in God will read. If you do it tha ...[text shortened]... all your questions .. Im not saying you will like all the answers ... 😀
What say you ? 🙂
26 Jan 12
4 edits
Originally posted by stellspalfie
just to clarify, was jesus cleansing sins from the past or the sins of past and future?
it still seems like god choose a purely arbitrary method for sins to be absolved. why crucifixion? when he created man he may have given us free will but within certain guidelines, there is a limit to what we can and cannot do. so why not limit our capacity to do for them to do is die? is that because they have sinned? im very confused on this one.
just to clarify, was jesus cleansing sins from the past or the sins of past and future?
All sins, past, present, future until sin should be no more in God's universe.
But the substitution and benefit is to those become identified with Him.
Don't worry about those who lived and sinned in any age before Christ was born. They are included in the benefit also if they become identified with Christ.
That is my understanding of "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world."
it still seems like god choose a purely arbitrary method for sins to be absolved.
All sins God must judge. He has a way to judge them all in one event - the cross of Christ. They are not overlooked. They are not winked at and forgotten. They are paid for in Christ.
The substitution and benefit is to everyone who is identified with the Son of God.
why crucifixion?
I don't know. But the Romans probably perfected that manner of execution.
Jesus was not the only man crucified for sure. Jesus was the only One who in addition to being tortured in this manner received the judgment of God upon His being on behalf of the sins of all the world.
In addition to the hands, feet, nailed He suffered something of the wrath of God which we cannot imagine or know. In those moments the darkening of the sun and the earthquake signified that something supernatural was taking place aside from a human devized execution.
The Bible says He carried up our sins in His body onto the tree. And when the Father forsook Him he suffered something which from eternity He had never known - probably the equivalent of damnation for the entire world.
when he created man he may have given us free will but within certain guidelines, there is a limit to what we can and cannot do. so why not limit our capacity to do evil. for us to know evil means it must have been in gods mind too. otherwise we become the creator. if god forgives and sinners go to heaven does that mean there is sin in heaven? if there is no sin in heaven it means we have had our capacity to do sin removed, so why didnt he just do that in the first place.
The goal is not to take man to heaven. The goal is a city called New Jerusalem. Here Jesus Christ as the PROTOTYPE is mass produced in billions or more human beings who become a corporate expression of God united with man.
We believers are being conformed to the image of the Son of God that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers in a new universe in which righteousnesss dwells forever -
"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to thge image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers.
And those whom He predestinated, these He also called; and thoe whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified, these He also glorified." (Romans 8:28-30)
This final destiny of being glorified is not merely some outward splendour. It is to express in every way the Divine Being which was manifested in Christ. It is to me united and joined with the Father to express His life and nature. This is for His expression and dominion over His creation and our enjoyment.
"fallen sinners cannot be healed" what is a fallen sinner? is a "new life" the after life?
I erased that post because I thought it was not appropriate.
But you see, to be BORN AGAIN is really to start all over again. It is not self improvement. It is not "turning over a new leaf" so to speak.
It is to receive another life in addition to the life we were born with. It is to receive God compounded into your being - an "organic" union of a man with Jesus Christ.
Then His death on the cross can be utilized as a terminating and killing power to kill off "germs" within our being. And His resurrection can be utilized as a germinating power to impart a new element into our personality.
His death and resurrection becomes a practical procedure of cantabalism and annabolism in us. Something is dying and something is rising. Something is going down and something is rising up. There is no death without life. All that we lose is being replaced by a divine element.
Satan is being stripped off and stripped out. He knows this and fears our union with Christ. We pass through the process but Satan is stripped off and stripped away.
Think of it as removing leeches from off of your body. Something like that. The death and resurrection of Jesus becomes a means to eliminate some terrible foreign evil which has infested our being. And it becomes a funnel to dispense the Divine Life of our heavenly Father into our being until we are totally swallowed up in God.
The Gift of God is eternal life. The Gift of God in Christ is really something more than we could imagine or even ask for ourselves. The gift of God is eternal life.
26 Jan 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieOk fair enough. I will answer shortly. Need to get some chess games done before they timeout.
im always up for some god related chatting. although i dont feel my question was derogatory, no offence was meant, i was not using those words to mock or incite. its just something i feel quite strongly about.
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26 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywillthere are lots of questions id like to ask, but the mother-in-law is coming over soon and the wife is on her way back from work so i better make the house look like ive been doing something other than sit on the laptop all day.fallen sinners cannot be healed" what is a fallen sinner? is a "new life" the after life?
I would like to recommend further reading which is more effective then a discussion exchange with these limitations.
www.regenerated.net
one more question before i go. how do you know your god is the real god?
26 Jan 12
Originally posted by stellspalfie
there are lots of questions id like to ask, but the mother-in-law is coming over soon and the wife is on her way back from work so i better make the house look like ive been doing something other than sit on the laptop all day.
one more question before i go. how do you know your god is the real god?
how do you know your god is the real god?
You better get to that housework. LOL!
talk latter.
26 Jan 12
how do you know your god is the real god?
My faith is that His uniqueness lends credence to trusting that He is the real God.
There is no other book quite like the Bible.
There is no other Person quite like Jesus Christ.
Because I feel that I have met Christ and He has wrought changes in my life I know I am not the source of, I trust that He is accurate in His own promises that He is and there no other God besides Him.
26 Jan 12
4 edits
Originally posted by stellspalfieFirst there are no easy answers to these questions simply because the Bible does not clearly deal with such issues.
rajk999 could you help me with another question. god doesnt like people who dont belive in him, right? how does he feel about the people who lived before christ or around the same time that had no chance to read the bible or hear his word. lets say north and south america. millions of people lived and died without the word of christ. will god make and e ...[text shortened]... he question i asked about living a good, giving, loving life would i still be fool in gods eyes.
As Jaywill explained Christ died for all of mankind both before and after his arrival so the gift of salvation is for all men to benefit from. I dont share the typical Christian belief that only Christians will get salvation. There are several reasons I have for this :
1. At the time of the birth of Christ many of the Jews where Christ was born were totally oblivious as to the significant event of the Birth of Christ but 'wise men' from the East [wherever that was] were told of His birth and where to find the child. Obviously God was in contact with others [not just the Jews - as many Christians believe] and keeping them informed and aware of such an important event. Who knows what other contact God has had with Gentiles in the past, and even now.
2. The Bible omits a significant part of the life of Christ - roughly 17 or 18 years. Christ said as a child when he was around 12 that he must be about his Fathers business. Many Christians in order to claim a monopoly on Christ say that,during that 18 yr period, he was tending to sheep, doing carpentry [like his earthly father Joseph] but I doubt that the Son of God would be doing that from 12 to 30 when at 12 he was arguing and confounding the Scribes and Pharisees in the temple with his knowledge and wisdom. Chances are high that Christ would have traveled and probably visited the Wise Men who visited him at his birth. Who knows.
3. Romans 2:9-15 - an infamous passage which no Christian can explain. It seems to me that those who are not under the law, [either the law of Christ or the law of Moses] are going to be judged under the law by which they live and by the works which they do. Good and evil is written into the hearts and conscience of ALL men. It is my opinion [and it appears that this Romans passage is saying that as well] that people from Adam to Christ will face judgment even though they dont know Christ.
All atheists are not fools in the eyes of God. I was just provoking you earlier. Fools in the eyes of God are basically evil people who Christ described as 'children of the Devil'. People whose lives are so fill with wrong-doing that they are hopelessly lost.
There are instances in the Bible where a person was doing all the right things like you described, and God sent a messenger to them to preach to them. So its a start that you imply that you are in fact living a good charitable life.
If you are not a God-fearing person right now and you feel that something is missing or even if you feel the desire to insult Christians and religious people in general, maybe God is carrying you down a path were you will find answers which will lead you to him. I dont know. God works in mysterious ways.
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30 Jan 12
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i dont feel like there is anything missing in my life, hence my opening statement. i look at my life and a christian and think there really much of a difference. actually there is one major difference ive noticed. most of the christians i know are rightwing (which says a lot to me) and i and most of the atheists i know are liberals and socialists.
does anybody know what happens to babies in heaven? do they stay babies forever or grow up as orphans waiting for there parents to die. unless it was their parents that killed them, then its gonna kinda make the atmosphere in haven a bit awkward when the parents get there.
if a roman catholic priest molests some children then repents and says 4 hail marys or whatever does he then get to go to heaven? if so, is it possible for the victims to get out a heavenly injunction to stop him coming near their part of 'heaven'? my dog is old, will he go to heaven? if not why? i want my dog in heaven, it can hardly be called heaven if my dogs not going to be there.
if my wife dies young and i re-marry, what happens when me and my new wife die? my old wife aint gonna be happy sharing me.
whats am i going to do in heaven forever? it sounds boring.
30 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywillSo what do you do when you meet a Muslim who tells you the same thing about his faith? Do you assume he is the delude one?
Because I feel that I have met Christ and He has wrought changes in my life I know I am not the source of, I trust that He is accurate in His own promises that He is and there no other God besides Him.
30 Jan 12
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadI let him watch me.
So what do you do when you meet a Muslim who tells you the same thing about his faith? Do you assume he is the delude one?
By the way, I have never met a Muslim who said definitely and clearly that he KNEW God.
I have met Muslims who say HERE is how we should pray or HERE is how we should fast or HERE is how we should give tiths or HERE is how we should go to Mecca or HERE is how we should eat.
I have not met a Muslim yet who clearly said that he or she KNEW God. They know many things ABOUT God according to their Quran.