03 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillnot three minutes in and he already established a grand scarecrow argument.
Give an example from the lecture.
[b] The Absurdity of Life Without God
A three video talk by William Lane Craig.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJqkpI1W75c&feature=related
googlefudge will now show examples of his above criticism from the specified lecture, perhaps.[/b]
premise: there is no ultimate meaning.
conclusion: all the efforts of doctors, scientists, etc, have no meaning.
fallacy conclusion. all the efforts of doctors, scientists, etc, do have a meaning to the people they currently serve and all the people who will be served by it in future developments of their efforts.
no ultimate meaning is necessary for the equation to have meaning.
since his opening remarks are based on fallacy, there is no point in continuing to waste time watching more of the video.
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04 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillOK you asked for it.
Give an example from the lecture.
[b] The Absurdity of Life Without God
A three video talk by William Lane Craig.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJqkpI1W75c&feature=related
googlefudge will now show examples of his above criticism from the specified lecture, perhaps.[/b]
I have just spent 3 hours transcribing the entire three videos.
Tomorrow, I will go through and tidy up my transcripts and post them.
Then I will Obliterate his idiotic arguments.
Please don't ask me to listen to any more of this idiots moronic rants in future.
You want me to respond to anything this nutter has to say you can damn well transcribe him yourself.
04 Feb 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeyou sir, have a lot more patience for the absurd than i do! i couldn't be bothered to get past his grand opening fallacy.
OK you asked for it.
I have just spent 3 hours transcribing the entire three videos.
Tomorrow, I will go through and tidy up my transcripts and post them.
Then I will Obliterate his idiotic arguments.
Please don't ask me to listen to any more of this idiots moronic rants in future.
You want me to respond to anything this nutter has to say you can damn well transcribe him yourself.
04 Feb 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeIf there is no point to existence................why do you struggle for your existence??
Why does there need to be a point to existence?
People keep asking "what is the point of the universe?" of "existence?" of "our/your/my life?"
My response is to ask what makes you think that a point exists?
To have a point (from an external perspective) needs a mind to have that point.
To be created for a purpose requires a creator with a pur ...[text shortened]... no need for any god to tell me what I am for.
So yes, god is pointless and unnecessary.
You struggle every week of your life to make your pointless existence better.
Why do you get sad when your family member dies ......if they are only chemicals and there is no point to their existence?
Why do you get sad if the chemicals go away?
Or the chemicals get smashed in a car accident?
You say one thing but act differently.
That is dishonest.
If you are just a bag of chemicals and you struggle for your existence all the time - then why don't you commit suicide and be removed from all the struggle and pointless existence.
Why are you spending so much money and time trying to create cures for disease for your pointless existence??
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04 Feb 12
Originally posted by DasaIronically this argument from dasa is essentially the entire argument of William Lane Craig.
If there is no point to existence................why do you struggle for your existence??
You struggle every week of your life to make your pointless existence better.
Why do you get sad when your family member dies ......if they are only chemicals and there is no point to their existence?
Why do you get sad if the chemicals go away?
Or the chemical ...[text shortened]... ending so much money and time trying to create cures for disease for your pointless existence??
except he spends over half an hour trying to make it.
Thus I will dismiss dasa's short version when I deal with WLC's longer attempt.
The main difference is the amount of time WLC spends trying to tell you how terrible a world
without god would be in an attempt to scare his audience into believing.
04 Feb 12
Originally posted by DasaDasa's new words: "pointless existence".
If there is no point to existence................why do you struggle for your existence?? [...] You struggle every week of your life to make your pointless existence better. [...] why don't you commit suicide and be removed from all the struggle and pointless existence. Why are you spending so much money and time trying to create cures for disease for your pointless existence??
04 Feb 12
There is no point to life in terms of what god wants from us .
It often leaves theists,(but others as well), with quite an empty, unnerving feeling.
I would say that god is "knocking". All the time. Poof!! there goes another moment.
But there is only one moment. One eternal moment that we get given chances to enter.
I would say that "God" would want you to become less anthropomorphic in your understanding of "Him", and release the coiled "snake" from your belly ,(kundalini- the rising/discovery of your own chakras), and above all take a wholistic approach to whichever direction(s) you take in life.
Dont ignore anyone who comes a knockin' . It's/They are all "God" . Everything is to some degree, so it is perfectly well and good to say that "God does not exist". Either that or "God exists in everything known and unknown" .
Again, it doesn't matter which way you attack the problem. The point is to get into the spirit of a wholistic approach to life. That will have entirely different meanings to different people, in different walks of life, etc.
If god came knocking, I suspect that you will not mistake him. If there is any doubt, it is not the full god 😉
My two cents after reading the entirity of this somewhat interesting and somewhat disturbing thread. (I found rajks comments disturbing) . Not to mention jaywills outlook, etc.
Keep it coming guys 😀
04 Feb 12
1 edit
Originally posted by DasaThat you have a belief system that "authorises" you to declare the "existence" of people whose beliefs are different from yours [and whom you clearly have no understanding of or empathy for], to be "pointless", is an indictment of your mind map and beliefs - rather than something that is going to promote them among spiritual people who see life differently from you - and differently from each other. Indeed, your new repetition of "pointless existence" comes across, not as analysis, but rather as merely a kind of odd online bravado and vanity.
...no point to existence... your pointless existence...there is no point to their existence... why don't you commit suicide and be removed from all the struggle and pointless existence... your pointless existence??
04 Feb 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieThat's NOT God, it's a JW, big difference!!
if god came knocking on my door, what could he offer me? whats the benefits of being a christian? maybe im not looking hard enough but if i started believing and going to church and stuff i cant see how it would be good for me or anybody else, thus in my opinion making god pointless and irrelevant.
04 Feb 12
3 edits
Originally posted by googlefudge
OK you asked for it.
I have just spent 3 hours transcribing the entire three videos.
Tomorrow, I will go through and tidy up my transcripts and post them.
Then I will Obliterate his idiotic arguments.
Please don't ask me to listen to any more of this idiots moronic rants in future.
You want me to respond to anything this nutter has to say you can damn well transcribe him yourself.
OK you asked for it.
I have just spent 3 hours transcribing the entire three videos.
Tomorrow, I will go through and tidy up my transcripts and post them.
Then I will Obliterate his idiotic arguments.
Please don't ask me to listen to any more of this idiots moronic rants in future.
You want me to respond to anything this nutter has to say you can damn well transcribe him yourself.
He's talking about this - "The Absurdity of Life Without God"
&feature=related
goodlefudge, I didn't beg you to watch the videos. You shot off your bluster about Craig and I simply asked for an example.
And I do not expect your own "moronic rant" of three hours. Just a minute of a clear and straightforward reply will do just fine to this:
Why do you exist then ?
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05 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillI have posted my reasons for viewing WLC and this lecture as being full of logical fallacies and why
[quote] OK you asked for it.
I have just spent 3 hours transcribing the entire three videos.
Tomorrow, I will go through and tidy up my transcripts and post them.
Then I will Obliterate his idiotic arguments.
Please don't ask me to listen to any more of this idiots moronic rants in future.
You want me to respond to anything this nutter ha ...[text shortened]... ightforward reply will do just fine to this:
Why [b]do you exist then ?[/b]
his arguments are wrong in a new thread, so as not to put a multi post wall in the middle of this one.
And my response to "Why do you exist then ?" is simply that I have no reason for existing,
nor need a reason for existing, other than that which i make myself.
I exist because my parents decided to have kids, as their parents before them ect, back to the start
of evolution with first life, and then before that because conditions for life to form were possible in this
part of the universe, and that this part of the universe came to be like this in the first place.
None of which has, or needs, any reason... it just is.
05 Feb 12
7 edits
Originally posted by googlefudge
I have posted my reasons for viewing WLC and this lecture as being full of logical fallacies and why
his arguments are wrong in a new thread, so as not to put a multi post wall in the middle of this one.
And my response to "Why [b]do you exist then ?" is simply that I have no reason for existing,
nor need a reason for existing, other than that ...[text shortened]... to be like this in the first place.
None of which has, or needs, any reason... it just is.[/b]
I have posted my reasons for viewing WLC and this lecture as being full of logical fallacies and why his arguments are wrong in a new thread, so as not to put a multi post wall in the middle of this one.
Thanks for your labors there. It is being studied. [/b]
And my response to "Why do you exist then ?" is simply that I have no reason for existing, nor need a reason for existing, other than that which i make myself.
For one going through such labor to debunk Craig's thoughts it is curious to me that above you really do not come up with that much of a different conclusion.
All you have written in answer to the questions affirms what he said about human living without God -
I have no reason for existing, nor need a reason for existing, other than that which i make myself.
This sounds very familiar to what Craig discribed as one approach to the delimma.
You "embrace" the bleakness of your meaninglessness, as he said some modern thinkers do. And as some modern thinkers do, you say there is no meaning other than what you make for yourself.
Isn't this rather bleak ? Cannot also Hitler and Stalin say they have made meaning enough for themselves in the killing of millions of people in concentration camps and work camps ?
I will go through all of your criticism of Craig's lecture. But the explanation you give above certainly sounds like Craig could have written it himself - as to no meaning in the absurdity of life without God.
I exist because my parents decided to have kids, as their parents before them ect, back to the start of evolution with first life, and then before that because conditions for life to form were possible in this part of the universe, and that this part of the universe came to be like this in the first place.
None of which has, or needs, any reason... it just is.
Then I would say this must be truly absurd. Truly absurd! Why ?
When I look at the encredible ingenuity of the reproductive process in all of its intricate stages of impregnation, fertilization, cell division, cell multplication, specialization of body parts, etc. etc. etc. and it has not any reason ?
I find that truly ABSURD to the point of loud insane LAUGHTER at the madness of such meaninglessness.
This is Kafka's bleak and insane absurdity as a man waking up one morning having changed into a cockroach ( "Metamorphasis" ) or a purposeless trial for no apparent reason ( "The Trial" ) .
For a detailed debunker of Craig's argument you certainly seem to come to his same conclusions.