30 May 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Sorry the question was 'why you have no empirical data for your assertion', you have
stated and I quote, 'the process does not exist'. How do you know that it does not
exist? You have NOT stated that it is incorrect, you have stated that 'it does not exist',
without a smidgen of evidence. Either my geologist friend and his book are imaginary ...[text shortened]... at high temperatures
resulting in a purification process. In fact, i must be a genius!
sorry the question was why you have no empirical data for your assertion, you have
stated and I quote, the process does not exist. How do you know that it does not
exist?
I have just given the reason why: “That reason comes from my own knowledge about geology:
Oceanic vents do “filter” out anything! They EXPEL out hot gasses and water.
Just try Googling “"Oceanic vents filter" and you get just “ No results found for "Oceanic vents filter". “! “(my quote)
You have not stated that it is incorrect, you have stated that it does not exist,
your statement about the mechanism is incorrect BECAUSE it doesn't exist! -Don't you see!?
to be vitrified
you originally said “filtered” and you didn't mention “vitrified” before; The two do not equate.
30 May 12
Originally posted by humyI have not asked you for reasons, i have asked you for empirical scientific data forsorry the question was why you have no empirical data for your assertion, you have
stated and I quote, the process does not exist. How do you know that it does not
exist?
I have just given the reason why: “That reason comes from my own knowledge about geology:
Oceanic vents do “filter” out anything! They just EXPEL out hot gasses and wa ...[text shortened]... ginally said “filtered” and you didn't mention “vitrified” before; The two do not equate.
your assertion, you have produced nothing. What do you think will happen to chemical
elements in water when it is subjected to high temperatures, flip sake, are you sure
you went to science lectures and not basket weaving courses?
30 May 12
4 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have not asked you for reasons, i have asked you for empirical scientific data for
your assertion, you have produced nothing. What do you think will happen to chemical
elements in water when it is subjected to high temperatures, flip sake, are you sure
you went to science lectures and not basket weaving courses?
I have not asked you for reasons, i have asked you for empirical scientific data for
your assertion, you have produced nothing.
I just gave you some reasons! Reminder:
I have just given the reason why: “That reason comes from my own knowledge about geology:
Oceanic vents do “filter” out anything! They EXPEL out hot gasses and water.
Just try Googling “"Oceanic vents filter" and you get just “ No results found for "Oceanic vents filter". “! “(my quote)
What do you think will happen to chemical
elements in water when it is subjected to high temperatures
NOTHING!
One chemical element cannot be converted into another unless it does so via nuclear reactions and the ocean vents are not nearly hot enough to do that! Heat would have to be immense heat such as in the sun in order to do that!
Therefore, the answer to your question “ What do you think will happen to chemical elements in water when it is subjected to high temperatures” where the “high temperatures” are those of the oceanic vents, the answer is still “NOTHING” just as I said.
So what has that got to do with the claim that the ocean vents filter-out pollutant particulate matter that originated in the Earth's atmosphere?
30 May 12
3 edits
Originally posted by humyso lets get this, if I take water, force it under pressure upon molten lava, nothing willI have not asked you for reasons, i have asked you for empirical scientific data for
your assertion, you have produced nothing.
I just gave you some reasons! Reminder:
[quote] I have just given the reason why: “That reason comes from my own knowledge about geology:
Oceanic vents do “filter” out anything! They EXPEL out hot gasses and w an vents filter-out pollutant particulate matter that originated in the Earth's atmosphere?
happen to any of the trace elements in the water or the water itself, that is your
assertion, thank you, can i order a a straw hat? clearly you must be better at weaving
straw hats than providing empirical scientific data. Btw , there is no need to repeat
everything i say, unless of course your taking up mimicry as a second profession to
basket weaving, i was aware of the content of my post when i typed it.
30 May 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so lets get this, if I take water, force it under pressure upon molten lava, nothing will
happen to any of the trace elements in the water or the water itself, that is your
assertion, thank you, can i order a a straw hat? clearly you must be better at weaving
straw hats than providing empirical scientific data.
so lets get this, if I take water, pour it upon molten lava, nothing will happen to any of
the trace elements or the water, that is your assertion,
In the sense that they will stay the SAME trace elements, yes. This just comes from common knowledge in physics.
http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryglossary/a/elementdef.htm
“...A chemical element is a substance that cannot be broken down by chemical means. Elements are defined by the number of protons they possess. ...”
are you claiming now that the chemical elements CAN change their number of protons via heat of the oceanic vents!?
The hot vents would add some trace elements because they vent gas but they will not “filter” them out if that is what you are implying?
30 May 12
4 edits
Originally posted by humywe are not asking whether those trace elements will change, are you capable ofso lets get this, if I take water, pour it upon molten lava, nothing will happen to any of
the trace elements or the water, that is your assertion,
In the sense that they will stay the SAME trace elements, yes. This is just common knowledge in physics.
The hot vents would add some trace elements because they vent gas but they will not “filter” them out if that is what you are implying?
rational thought? we asked and i repeat for you failed to comprehend it the first, 'what
will happen to those trace elements in the water', you stated, nothing. so lets go back
to primary physics, shall we , when i heat water it becomes a gas, yeah! what happens
to any trace elements in the water when i heat it up? yes, they are left behind, yeah
and the water, now a gas, is what, yes that is correct, purified of its trace elements.
shall we take this model and apply it to hydrothermal vents, shall we?
30 May 12
4 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
we are not asking whether those trace elements will change, are you capable of
rational thought? we asked and i repeat for you failed to comprehend it the first, 'what
will happen to those trace elements in the water', you stated, nothing. so lets go back
to primary physics, shall we , when i heat water it becomes a gas, yeah! what happens
t ...[text shortened]... its trace elements.
shall we take this model and apply it to hydrothermal vents, shall we?
so lets go back
to primary physics, shall we , when i heat water it becomes a gas, yeah!
Oh dear, you obviously don't know about the basic physics of liquids:
When water is under the immense high pressure such as at the bottom of the ocean floor, its boiling point is greatly increased.
The oceanic vents don't make it hot enough to boil at those immense depths so the water isn't changed into steam at those depths.
http://www.fathom.com/course/10701050/session6.html
“...The temperature of the water coming out of the vents ranges from a modest 10-30° Celsius to a staggering 350-400°C. Because of the very high pressure, this superheated water does NOT boil and turn to steam as it would in air. ...” (my emphasis)
the rest of your post is flawed because of this.
Sorry! nothing happens to the chemical elements that are drawn in the oceanic vents!
-so please don't lecture me about “primary physics” in that insulting condescending manner; I obviously know a lot more about physics than you do.
30 May 12
Originally posted by humyhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17229454so lets go back
to primary physics, shall we , when i heat water it becomes a gas, yeah!
Oh dear, you obviously don't know about the basic physics of liquids:
When water is under the immense high pressure such as at the bottom of the ocean floor, its boiling point is greatly increased.
The oceanic vents don't make it hot enough to boi ...[text shortened]... that insulting condescending manner; I obviously know a lot more about physics than you do.
http://www.ceoe.udel.edu/deepsea/level-2/geology/vents.html
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1001234
Don't forget about all those ocean sea creatures that live near those ocean vents also fliter out pollutants.
Give up. Eat those shorts!
30 May 12
Originally posted by RJHindsNone of those links say anything about the claim here that the vents filter out pollution so your links are totally irrelevant.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17229454
http://www.ceoe.udel.edu/deepsea/level-2/geology/vents.html
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1001234
Don't forget about all those ocean sea creatures that live near those ocean vents also fliter out pollutants.
Give up. Eat those shorts!
Don't forget about all those ocean sea creatures that live near those ocean vents also fliter out pollutants.
the claim here made by Rob was NOT that the sea creatures that live near those ocean vents filter out pollutants but the vents do this. Also, the “pollution” that those sea creatures filter out nearly totally all comes from the “natural pollution” from the vents themselves and certainly NOT from particulate matter that originated in the atmosphere as he claimed.
30 May 12
4 edits
Originally posted by humyok, I've had enough of your nonsense,so lets go back
to primary physics, shall we , when i heat water it becomes a gas, yeah!
Oh dear, you obviously don't know about the basic physics of liquids:
When water is under the immense high pressure such as at the bottom of the ocean floor, its boiling point is greatly increased.
The oceanic vents don't make it hot enough to boi that insulting condescending manner; I obviously know a lot more about physics than you do.
In contrast to the approximately 2 °C ambient water temperature at these depths,
water emerges from these vents at temperatures ranging from 60 °C up to as
high as 464 °C.[2][3] Due to the high hydrostatic pressure at these depths,
water may exist in either its liquid form or as a supercritical fluid at such
temperatures. At a pressure of 218 atmospheres, the critical point of (pure) water is
375 °C. At a depth of 3,000 meters, the hydrostatic pressure of sea water is more
than 300 atmospheres (as salt water is denser than fresh water). At this depth and
pressure, seawater becomes supercritical at a temperature of 407 °C (see image).
However the increase in salinity at this depth pushes the water closer to its critical
point. Thus, water emerging from the hottest parts of some hydrothermal vents
can be a supercritical fluid, possessing physical properties between those of a gas
and those of a liquid.[2][3] Besides being superheated, the water is also
extremely acidic, often having a pH value as low as 2.8 — approximately that of
vinegar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent
look, next time you make an assertion, make sure its backed up by empirical
scientific evidence, otherwise, your going to be eating shorts for a very long time.
30 May 12
1 edit
Hydrothermal vents,
Submarine volcanoes are common features on the ocean floor. Some are active and, in
shallow water, disclose their presence by blasting steam and rocky debris high above
the surface of the sea. Many others lie at such great depths that the tremendous
pressure from the weight of the water above them prevents the explosive release of
steam and gases. This causes the water to be heated to over 375 degrees C, turning
the water in the hottest parts of the vents into a supercritical fluid since the pressure at
this depth of over 3 km is over 300 atmospheres, well above the 218 atmospheres
required.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_fluid
30 May 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt might be a supercritical fluid at some point but what has that got to do with pollution? Also, it would not stay supercritical very long because it would quickly mix with that 2 degree C water and soon be down to normal temperatures there.
ok, I've had enough of your nonsense,
In contrast to the approximately 2 °C ambient water temperature at these depths,
water emerges from these vents at [b]temperatures ranging from 60 °C up to as
high as 464 °C.[2][3] Due to the high hydrostatic pressure at these depths,
water may exist in either its liquid form or as a supercritica ...[text shortened]... mpirical
scientific evidence, otherwise, your going to be eating shorts for a very long time.
30 May 12
2 edits
Originally posted by sonhousedear oh dear, why are we pathetic theists now instructing you materialists?
It might be a supercritical fluid at some point but what has that got to do with pollution? Also, it would not stay supercritical very long because it would quickly mix with that 2 degree C water and soon be down to normal temperatures there.
my assertion is that a process of vitrification, filtration and osmosis takes place,
1. hydrothermal vents, especially formation of the mineral chlorite within the cracks
and fissures of the vents, which removes Mg2+ (magnesium ion).
2.You must keep in mind that the laws of osmosis, diffusion and filtration are all at work
here. In all cases, the osmotic forces attract water towards areas of stronger
concentration. Solutes and particles (nutrients etc.) migrate towards the intracellular
areas of lesser concentration.
http://oceanplasma.org/documents/chemistry.html#Other_substances
30 May 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYour assertion was with reagrds to airborne pollutants.
dear oh dear, why are we pathetic theists now instructing you materialists?
my assertion is that a process of vitrification, filtration and osmosis takes place,
1. hydrothermal vents, especially formation of the mineral chlorite within the cracks
and fissures of the vents, which removes Mg2+ (magnesium ion).
2.You must keep in mind that ...[text shortened]... eas of lesser concentration.
http://oceanplasma.org/documents/chemistry.html#Other_substances
30 May 12
What has been forgoten in this whole disussion (but that humy did point out) is that it is totally irrelevant whether or not ocean vents take anything out of or put anything into the sea water that goes through them. After all, the initial issue was whether or not anything comes out of the atmosphere. Once it is in the ocean, as humy pointed out, most of it will end up in sediments at the bottom and become part of the rock.
This is where most carbon ends up. Either in the form of oil/gas or rocks high in carbon like limestone.