15 Jul 10
4 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadMaybe its because I feel you are taking each of his teachings in isolation and saying that it wont work. You have to remember the parable of the talents, ie he taught that if you have talents, you should use them. So living like Jesus taught would include hard work.
Maybe its because I feel you are taking each of his teachings in isolation and saying that it wont work. You have to remember the parable of the talents, ie he taught that if you have talents, you should use them. So living like Jesus taught would include hard work.
I also think that he did teach that you should have ideals and strength of conviction. I ...[text shortened]... ves to the poor because he is scared of punishment if he doesn't is missing the point entirely.
ok, ground given there...but working with a literal framework we're considering a somewhat extreme situation and you're imposing a condition that applies to all people with complete generality; it's the latter I take issue with. There may well be endeavours in which the payoff for mankind as a whole exceeds the expense paid, necessarily, by one individual; but that one individual, being human, might still evaluate the costs as too high (even when lending higher weight to the desire that he lives like Jesus).
I also think that he did teach that you should have ideals and strength of conviction. I do not think that being forced to live like Jesus really counts.
I have always believed that a Christian who gives to the poor because he is scared of punishment if he doesn't is missing the point entirely.
But did he teach the special case that strength of conviction should always, without exception, dwarf any hesitation?
On your final point I agree, it does offend me slightly when some Christians question my morality purely by virtue of my failure to believe in God when they themselves suggest they act as they do only out of fear or expectation of eternal paradise.
15 Jul 10
Originally posted by AgergYou need only to look at the Amish and Hutterite communities to answer your questions. Although they may have other problems, the Amish/Hutterites are pacifists who have had only one recorded homicide in their history. Clearly their cultural model is working well in that regard. Whether the trade offs are worth the result is another matter.
A question primarily for Christians (but how I pose it may well be challenged by others) If we all behaved like Jesus would the world really be a better place? I shall suppose there is no divine intervention on this matter and imagine for arguments sake it is a state of being we eventually achieve as a collective. I am interested in two points that seem proble ...[text shortened]... o reach it?? If there isn't such a cap then my previous question remains to be answered.
The Hutterites (unlike the Amish) also practice a community of goods. They have no private ownership of anything consequential. There are no rich. There are no poor. All the wealth generated by their industries is used for the benefit of the whole community. So what motives the Hutterites? Clearly something does. Perhaps being able to live a decent life in a world without exploitation is motivation enough. To a great extent, I do not think all our vaunted technologies, resources, and luxuries really make us any happier. I think most of them do quite the opposite.
15 Jul 10
Originally posted by rwingettStephen Jay Gould had an excellent response to the romanticizing of simpler times in his book "Rock of Ages". He pointed out that child mortality rates were about 50% until modern medicine came along.
To a great extent, I do not think all our vaunted technologies, resources, and luxuries really make us any happier. I think most of them do quite the opposite.
15 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by SwissGambitModern medicine is one area where technology is obviously a great boon. Most others are not so clear cut.
Stephen Jay Gould had an excellent response to the romanticizing of simpler times in his book "Rock of Ages". He pointed out that child mortality rates were about 50% until modern medicine came along.
15 Jul 10
Originally posted by rwingettI'm also glad for computers that make stuff like the internet possible and allow me to have a cushy office job instead of working a physically stressful job in extreme temperatures, or working a dangerous job. Maybe Dilbert hates his fabric-covered cubicle, but I don't.
Modern medicine is one area where technology is obviously a great boon. Most others are not so clear cut.
16 Jul 10
Originally posted by SwissGambitThe real and/or alleged glories of technology are irrelevant. The point is that the Hutterites have a society which does not require a coercive justice system AND they have a cooperative society with a community of goods. Not only that, but unlike the Amish, they do not reject technology. They employ a good deal of it, as is appropriate to their circumstances. The Hutterite communities demonstrate conclusively that humans can devise social situations that are devoid of both vengeance and competition. In that regard, at least, they can 'live like Jesus.' Do you have any comment on any of that?
I'm also glad for computers that make stuff like the internet possible and allow me to have a cushy office job instead of working a physically stressful job in extreme temperatures, or working a dangerous job. Maybe Dilbert hates his fabric-covered cubicle, but I don't.
16 Jul 10
Originally posted by AgergWhy complicate a simple/incontrovertible reality? God thinks divine viewpoint. Human beings think human viewpoint, which is all we're capable of in a status of spiritual death (body and soul only) sans a human spirit, genetically and behaviorally depraved, unreconciled and unregenerate. Christianity is all about thought and getting your head on straight first.
A question primarily for Christians (but how I pose it may well be challenged by others) If we all behaved like Jesus would the world really be a better place? I shall suppose there is no divine intervention on this matter and imagine for arguments sake it is a state of being we eventually achieve as a collective. I am interested in two points that seem proble ...[text shortened]... o reach it?? If there isn't such a cap then my previous question remains to be answered.
................................................................................................
16 Jul 10
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWhat a demoralizing, self-loathing and psychologically damaging pile of garbage your Christianity is.
Why complicate a simple/incontrovertible reality? God thinks divine viewpoint. Human beings think human viewpoint, which is all we're capable of in a status of spiritual death (body and soul only) sans a human spirit, genetically and behaviorally depraved, unreconciled and unregenerate. Christianity is all about thought and getting your head on straight ...[text shortened]... ...............................................................................................
16 Jul 10
Originally posted by rwingettWell, we were talking about happiness, not glories. But I'll let it slide.
The real and/or alleged glories of technology are irrelevant. The point is that the Hutterites have a society which does not require a coercive justice system AND they have a cooperative society with a community of goods. Not only that, but unlike the Amish, they do not reject technology. They employ a good deal of it, as is appropriate to their circumstanc ...[text shortened]... In that regard, at least, they can 'live like Jesus.' Do you have any comment on any of that?
I'm all for the responsible use of technology. If there are societies that maximize the upside of it while minimizing the downside, then more power to 'em.