Originally posted by sonhouseThat is ridiculous. We were not in the cold war with the Soviet Union at that time. There was Russia at that time fighting against Germany that had invaded them.
There was no good in using the bomb on Japan. The REAL reason we bombed Japan was to give an object lesson to the Soviet Union.
The war with Japan was in the endgame anyway, we would have won without the need for the bomb.
It was the Soviet Union we wanted to impress, not Japan.
All that did was to make an arms race with both sides having literall ...[text shortened]... never recover from such a hit.
Yessir, it was SUCH a good thing we did in Japan back in 1945.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War
Originally posted by RJHindsYou mean something like "God-did-it-for-us!"? It was not USA who made the bomb, it was inspired by the holy spirit, or something?
God's will prevails for good in the end. That is why the USA, not Japan or Germany, had the atomic bomb at the right moment in history.
You know that the Nazis was very near to produce a bomb. What would you say if that bomb would be dropped in USA? "A good bomb because it ended the war?" Don't avoid the question, I just use your arguments, nothing more.
Atomic bombs are evil. It kills innocent people. And this is against one of your commandments. I don't care if the innocents are japanese people or the american people, it is as evil in both cases.
You believe in propaganda. Grow up.
Originally posted by RJHindsWell in fact the war in Europe was over before the bombs were dropped on Japan. The war in Europe ended when Nazi Germany signed its instrument of surrender on May 8, 1945, but the Pacific War continued. Together with the United Kingdom and China, the United States called for the unconditional surrender of the Japanese armed forces in the Potsdam Declaration on July 26, 1945, threatening "prompt and utter destruction".A uranium gun-type atomic bomb (Little Boy) was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, followed by a plutonium implosion-type bomb (Fat Man) on the city of Nagasaki on August 9. Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki; roughly half of the deaths in each city occurred on the first day.
That is ridiculous. We were not in the cold war with the Soviet Union at that time. There was Russia at that time fighting against Germany that had invaded them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War
Secondly, as the war in Europe drew to a close, there was a definite race between the Russians and the Americans to determine where their boundary would be, and there were frantic efforts to ensure that Russia did not get sole control of Berlin. This was even reflected in efforts by the Germans to try to surrender to Americans or British and not to Russian forces. The division of Europe into spheres of influence was envisaged long before the war ended and was eventually translated into an explicit agreement with Stalin, that for example gave Poland to the Russians and excluded the communists from Greece (two examples).
The first recorded occasion on which Churchill used the term "iron curtain" was in a 12 May 1945 telegram he sent to U.S. President Harry S. Truman regarding his concern about Soviet actions, stating "[a]n iron curtain is drawn down upon their front. We do not know what is going on behind." He was further concerned about "another immense flight of the German population westward as this enormous Muscovite advance towards the centre of Europe." Churchill concluded "then the curtain will descend again to a very large extent, if not entirely. Thus a broad land of many hundreds of miles of Russian-occupied territory will isolate us from Poland."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Curtain
Churchill repeated the words in a further telegram to President Truman on 4 June 1945, in which he protested against such a U.S. retreat to what was earlier designated as, and ultimately became, the U.S. occupation zone, saying the military withdrawal would bring "Soviet power into the heart of Western Europe and the descent of an iron curtain between us and everything to the eastward."
Notice that all these dates are before August 1945 when the bombs were dropped. Without knowing the details, I think it is possible that the Americans would have been very anxious to signal to Stalin that he would not have a free ride if he tried to push the western powers further than their agreed boundaries and it is also very possible that Stalin would have received and accepted their message.
Originally posted by FabianFnasWe all get sucked in by propaganda at times. Being a newborn baby in the USA in 1944, it is natural that I would believe the propaganda that dropping the bombs on Japan is good compared to Japan dropping the bombs on the USA. Recorded history indicated that the USA was not even in WW 2 when Japan attacked us killing innocent people in the process.
You mean something like "God-did-it-for-us!"? It was not USA who made the bomb, it was inspired by the holy spirit, or something?
You know that the Nazis was very near to produce a bomb. What would you say if that bomb would be dropped in USA? "A good bomb because it ended the war?" Don't avoid the question, I just use your arguments, nothing more.
...[text shortened]... ople or the american people, it is as evil in both cases.
You believe in propaganda. Grow up.
I believe it was by divine providence that we were able to obtain the atomic bomb before others. Also the USA may never have entered WW 2 to help rescue those in Europe that had been attacked by Hitler because the majority of the US public was against entering a war across the sea at that time.
Do you think that would have been good for those attacked countries in Europe where innocent people were being killed.
Originally posted by RJHindsYes, of course you believe in the propaganda, because you are american and therefore believs in your goverment. Exactly as the germans believed in the nazi propganda, exactly at the same way.
We all get sucked in by propaganda at times. Being a newborn baby in the USA in 1944, it is natural that I would believe the propaganda that dropping the bombs on Japan is good compared to Japan dropping the bombs on the USA. Recorded history indicated that the USA was not even in WW 2 when Japan attacked us killing innocent people in the process.
I bel ...[text shortened]... d have been good for those attacked countries in Europe where innocent people were being killed.
Why do you think the japanees people don't believe in the american propaganda? Because that their friends and family members was killed by the bomb?
You believe in the creationists propaganda, and therefore you don't hve to use your own brain. What you believe in you can find in www.creation.com and Youtube, what more are there to believe in?
Originally posted by finneganWell, I am not up on all the details of that period. But I was never taught that the USA dropped the atomic bombs for the purpose of sending a signal to the Soviet Union. If so, it does not appear to have worked.
Well in fact the war in Europe was over before the bombs were dropped on Japan. The war in Europe ended when Nazi Germany signed its instrument of surrender on May 8, 1945, but the Pacific War continued. Together with the United Kingdom and China, the United States called for the unconditional surrender of the Japanese armed forces in the Potsdam Declarati ...[text shortened]... ndaries and it is also very possible that Stalin would have received and accepted their message.
To me, it seems more logical that the bombs were dropped to save the lives of American soldiers and bring the war to closer. This is what I had been told in school. I am not to sympathetic with so-called historians coming long after the fact and attempting to revise the history.
Originally posted by FabianFnasAnd you believe in the atheist and evolution propaganda. So what?
Yes, of course you believe in the propaganda, because you are american and therefore believs in your goverment. Exactly as the germans believed in the nazi propganda, exactly at the same way.
Why do you think the japanees people don't believe in the american propaganda? Because that their friends and family members was killed by the bomb?
You believ ...[text shortened]... you believe in you can find in www.creation.com and Youtube, what more are there to believe in?
Fabian and All Others,
Should millions of people be wiped out because they will not fight back? If America did not fight back because we don't want to kill anyone, should we just let ourselves be removed from the earth?
Even God helped Israel fight other people. But who is to say that God helps America fight others? If Iran wants to rid itself of all Israelites, should Iran be allowed to do that because Israel will not fight back? War is exactly that, "war." If another country wants to use nuclear weapons on the U.S. then who is to stop them? If another country wants to torture war captives, who is to stop them? It is war.
It is a "blessing" that any country would use agreed upon standards when fighting an enemy? Otherwise a country can use any means it chooses to kill Americans and to torture Americans and Swedish people also, and all other nationalities of the earth?
I would not say that torture is Godly, but any country can do it to the United States and to Sweden and to any other country just because it wants to.
Even so, Christ Jesus gave His life willingly. He did not fight back by Himself or with angels of God or with humans like Peter who started using a sword to fight against someone who came along to apprehend Jesus or accompany those there to apprehend Jesus. Christ Jesus died on purpose for you and me according to the bible. He arose from the tomb also according to the bible. He provides salvation in Himself according to the bible. Do you not think that He is worthy of your belief?
You mention my name and therefore I'd like to clarify my point in the matter.
"Is an atomic bomb evil or good?"
An atomic bomb is blind. It kills. It's sole purpose is to kill people. If it was not used to kill people it would be useless.
Either it is good or bad, independent of where it is used: In New York, in Hiroshima, in Teheran, in Tel Aviv, Seuol, in Moscow, or in your very own home town.
If you don't agree with this you certainly divide the population on Earth in good guys, like us who are believing that we deserve to survive, always have god on our side, or whatever. And in bad guys, like those communist, like those muslims, like those who doesn't look like us, or whatever. Throw the bomb to the bad guys and get rid of them. Simple and clean.
But the thing is that the bad guys define themselves as good guys and us accordingly as the bad guys, worth throwing atomic bombs at.
There are some countries in the world possessing nuclear bombs. USA (who is the only country ever used an nuclear bomb to living innocent people), Russia (who have never done that, even if they could), China (which are the next one entering the status of Superpower), India and Pakistan, (who are enemies and therefore could very well solve their problems in a big bang), France and United Kingdom (who are considered by us being good guys), Israel (however denying it), North Korea (who brags with it), and perhaps in the near future Iran (who want one to established a terror balance with Israel). Every one of those who have it are prepared to use their bomb, otherwise it would be meaningless to have it. Having a bomb is to be a threat to others. A constant threat to a population is considered being a terrorist in every other aspect, why not this, especially when a nuclear bomb has already been used by one country to another country's civil and innocent population.
Do I think that an nuclear bomb is evil by itself? Or do I think that the use possession of an nuclear bomb is evil? Or do I think that a use of a nuclear bomb is evil? It hink you already know my opinion.
The world would be nicer and safer without nuclear bombs of any kind.
Originally posted by FabianFnasThe people of the USA believe in the right to defend our way of life. That is why we established a government that give the citizens the right to bear arms. That is why we have an army and navy with weapons for defense of our nation. We want to have every means available to defend our homeland from those that wish to attack us.
You mention my name and therefore I'd like to clarify my point in the matter.
"Is an atomic bomb evil or good?"
An atomic bomb is blind. It kills. It's sole purpose is to kill people. If it was not used to kill people it would be useless.
Either it is good or bad, independent of where it is used: In New York, in Hiroshima, in Teheran, in Tel Aviv ...[text shortened]... lready know my opinion.
The world would be nicer and safer without nuclear bombs of any kind.
It was not until WW 2 that it became apparent that the defense of democracies everywhere was also in the best interest of the USA. The USA took on the job as the worlds policeman. However, this is too big a job for one nation. Many other national democracies are becoming less willing to help in trying to keep the peace other than hope and talk about it. I don't know where this attitude will lead, but it doesn't look good to me.
Many like you wish we did not have weapons of mass destruction including the nuclear bombs. There have been talks about reducing arms, but as long as one nation fears attacks from other nations, it makes no sense for a nation to totally disarm and be defenseless.
Originally posted by RJHinds"The people of the USA believe in the right to defend our way of life."
The people of the USA believe in the right to defend our way of life. That is why we established a government that give the citizens the right to bear arms. That is why we have an army and navy with weapons for defense of our nation. We want to have every means available to defend our homeland from those that wish to attack us.
It was not until WW 2 th ...[text shortened]... attacks from other nations, it makes no sense for a nation to totally disarm and be defenseless.
So do the people of Japan. Did they deserve to die of a nucelar bomb? No more than you, RJHinds, does.
"We want to have every means available to defend our homeland from those that wish to attack us."
So have anyone else. Even Iran. That's why they also want nukes to defend themselves from the Israeli nukes.
"Many other national democracies are becoming less willing to help in trying to keep the peace other than hope and talk about it."
Because peace for the american people often leads to wars in others.
"Many like you wish we did not have weapons of mass destruction including the nuclear bombs."
Be sure of that. The only country having used nuclear bombs against innocent civilians is the country not wanting any other countries to have their own nuclear bombs for their defence. Hypocracy, not democracy.
I want to get rid of every nuclear weapons from every country. The bomb is evil, the people using them are evil, the people threatening others of their atomic bombs are evil.
Originally posted by FabianFnasWhat should be done with countries that threaten to use them, nuclear weapons?
"The people of the USA believe in the right to defend our way of life."
So do the people of Japan. Did they deserve to die of a nucelar bomb? No more than you, RJHinds, does.
"We want to have every means available to defend our homeland from those that wish to attack us."
So have anyone else. Even Iran. That's why they also want nukes to defend thems ...[text shortened]... l, the people using them are evil, the people threatening others of their atomic bombs are evil.