I'm thinking of giving up being religious

Originally posted by barstudd
you want me to argue your opinion,
is there a reason you didnt answer have you given your heart to the lord.

Simply because I don't see how this or even your previous question are at all relevant to my post.

Originally posted by barstudd
you want me to argue your opinion,
is there a reason you didnt answer have you given your heart to the lord.

Simply because I don't see how this or even your previous question are at all relevant to my post.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Simply because I don't see how this or even your previous question are at all relevant to my post.

have you given your heart to the lord?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
how do you give your heart to the Lord? i thought that taking in knowledge of the Christ and God was the key?

(John 17:3) . . .This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

The Aztecs gave their heart to their lord(s). 😀

Originally posted by barstudd
have you given your heart to the lord?

Hint: This is where you either explain the relevance or address my post 🙂

Originally posted by rwingett
The Aztecs gave their heart to their lord(s). 😀

Lol, yes and made them dance before doing it as well!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
and how is that?

As a followup to my previous answer, I wish to say again that faith is worthless. Creeds are worthless. Belief is worthless. These are all empty words that change nothing and help no one. They are all products of Pauline revisionism, which changes the emphasis of Jesus' teachings from this world to the next, and from correct action to correct belief. Deeds are what matter. Working against poverty, sickness and hunger are what matter. What your conscience leads you to believe is of little consequence in comparison. A Christian who professes great faith, but who tolerates a world filled with injustice and suffering, is a hypocrite. By comparison, a non-Christian who actively works to lessen injustice and suffering is doing "god's work."

Evangelism spreads the empty word of faith, creed and belief. It is repugnant. Someone who quietly goes about his work, doing good deeds, makes himself an example to be emulated. He makes himself a greater "fisher of men" than the most silver-tongued evangelist.

Originally posted by rwingett
As a followup to my previous answer, I wish to say again that faith is worthless. Creeds are worthless. Belief is worthless. These are all empty words that change nothing and help no one. They are all products of Pauline revisionism, which changes the emphasis of Jesus' teachings from this world to the next, and from correct action to correct belief. Deeds ...[text shortened]... lated. He makes himself a greater "fisher of men" than the most silver-tongued evangelist.

i think my friend that we have different ideas of evangelism, for to me, it appears just as you have stated, that a faith, without works is dead, and that a true faith, must, and i cannot emphasise this enough, must find vent in some positive and constructive action. however i firmly believe this to be the case, that the application of Biblical principles can help almost anyone alleviate poverty (which as you know is relative), overcome nationalism, hatred, strife, prejudice etc etc

the role of the conscience is paramount, its what makes Christianity so beautiful and different to ritualistic adherence to other forms of worship, however, if a conscience is not guided by right principles, like a dodgy compass, it wall not lead a person in the correct direction and in some cases it is completely salved over, desensitised and does not work altogether.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i think my friend that we have different ideas of evangelism, for to me, it appears just as you have stated, that a faith, without works is dead, and that a true faith, must, and i cannot emphasise this enough, must find vent in some positive and constructive action. however i firmly believe this to be the case, that the application of Biblical prin ...[text shortened]... ction and in some cases it is completely salved over, desensitised and does not work altogether.

Balderdash.

I am not saying that "faith without works is dead", I am saying that faith is completely irrelevant at best and a great hindrance at worst. People worry so much about the correct form of belief that this becomes the be-all and end-all of their approach. This only serves to divide people from one another into smaller and smaller sects of lesser and lesser relevance to the real world. All the while hunger and poverty go unchecked. When people quit obsessing over which form of belief is going to allegedly carry their "soul" into the next world, and instead quit being complicit enablers of a world system that breeds injustice and suffering on a massive scale, then we will be making some progress. It is deeds alone that are fruitful, with or without faith.

Originally posted by rwingett
Balderdash.

I am not saying that "faith without works is dead", I am saying that faith is completely irrelevant at best and a great hindrance at worst. People worry so much about the correct form of belief that this becomes the be-all and end-all of their approach. This only serves to divide people from one another into smaller and smaller sects of less ...[text shortened]... we will be making some progress. It is deeds alone that are fruitful, with or without faith.

Balderdash, Lol, not quite my friend, for who is to comfort those who are grieving with empty promises that their loved ones go to heaven to be with God? correct knowledge is needed for real comfort and hope to be imparted, otherwise you get a form of Godly devotion which is powerless in the lives of its adherents, full of empty promises and conjecture about this and that.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Balderdash, Lol, not quite my friend, for who is to comfort those who are grieving with empty promises that their loved ones go to heaven to be with God? correct knowledge is needed for real comfort and hope to be imparted, otherwise you get a form of Godly devotion which is powerless in the lives of its adherents, full of empty promises and conjecture about this and that.

Every religion is full of empty promises and conjecture about this and that. They all claim to have knowledge of things about which we can have no knowledge. Your interpretation of "god" is no more valid than that of a Muslim, or a Hindu, or an animist living in the jungles of New Guinea. There is no way to verify any of this, so there is no reason to waste time on any of it. Believe what you will about god, but don't pretend that it's 'right' or that it's the 'truth.'

So, it is clear that Jesus believed in the Jewish god and had much to say on the topic. That is all irrelevant to me. It is also clear that he had much to say about things in this world. That much is relevant. We can see for ourselves that there is much inequality, poverty, and hunger. These are tangible things about which we can make a difference. So what is the priority? Intangible, speculative theology, or tangible, concrete social work? Do we go with the former, where our input is of an inherently unknowable quality, or with the latter where we can measure its effects directly? Is the kingdom built upon pious words, or righteous deeds?

Originally posted by divegeester
What advice can the panel give please?

without reading the whole thread, I thought faith was something you can be blessed with or lose depending on luck. Is it really a choice? I never had any faith but this wasn't a choice, just the way it is for me. Sounds to me more like you are losing (or at least questioning) your faith, and there's not much you can do about it. Perhaps something will happen in future to bring your faith back.

Originally posted by twiceaknight
without reading the whole thread, I thought faith was something you can be blessed with or lose depending on luck. Is it really a choice? I never had any faith but this wasn't a choice, just the way it is for me. Sounds to me more like you are losing (or at least questioning) your faith, and there's not much you can do about it. Perhaps something will happen in future to bring your faith back.

I think it's more likely that he was merely pulling the panel's leg.

Originally posted by rwingett
I think it's more likely that he was merely pulling the panel's leg.

oh i see, hilarious. er..i've got 2 heads.

Originally posted by barstudd
while people like yourself choose to not to believe, and continue to argue the point that your opinions are right there is no wonder suffering exists.

You can't choose to believe, or not believe, in something. For example, you can't just decide to believe that the moon is made of green cheese. Sure, you could go around telling everyone that it is, but you would know that deep down you don't really believe it.