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15 Dec 23
@fmf saidYou're an ornery cuss! Look it up! It's contained in the same post from which you are quoting me. But if you're too lazy to read the entire post, and also use some of what you claim to have between your ears to read between the lines to help you understand the risk, which is really a straightforward risk, here you go, as you wish.
If one is "playing it safe" by being an agnostic, what danger do you think they avoid that atheists face?
In the end the atheist risks being wrong on the existence of God. That other risk, the one posed to the soul, cannot be mitigated no matter what our convictions are. Sorry, wrong word, insert "beliefs." It will be our actions and not our beliefs, or non beliefs, which matter in the end. Let me be more specific. Our good, evil, or indifferent actions performed don't matter in whose name we perform them. It's the essence as to why, where, when, and how we conduct ourselves in physical life which poses a risk to our souls.
Now, I suppose that you will have a great comeback with Christianity, to what I have just asserted on, "it doesn't matter in whose name." You are an intelligent person, but a little paranoid, in my view.
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15 Dec 23
@suzianne saidI'll be making fun of myself here. Pettytalk is the only use for this website.
Two things:
1. On this forum, anyways, it seems to me agnostics get a pass from both sides. Atheists are picked on by some theists (not all, surely), and theists are picked on by some atheists (not all, surely). Agnostics seem to be seen as a middle ground, which I think is why some on both sides tend to grab on to this flotation device to deflect criticism.
2. Have ...[text shortened]... e returning users, but I'm not sure with you. An argument could be made either way, or so it seems.
And therefore no, I'm not a returned user here. But I can't really say that I am not a returned soul for the use of the body through which pettytalk speaks. However, although my soul seems to be suffering from serious memory loss, I do have flashbacks that I have been here before, generally.
Do you believe in déjà vu? Apparently you seem to be unsure, but one never knows about these things we call feelings, sensation through our 5 physical senses. The mind is where all sensations are felt, and analyzed; I think I like you too.
Perhaps you have the sensation that we have met before, in some other life? I'm blushing now, but we can pursue the possibility as a theoretical speculation. But in my mind, the examination will prove it to be a real sensation, and not just an apparent one. And any friend of Jesus is a friend of mine, even if Jesus had to go away so that His Holy Spirit could come to remind us and explain everything. Perhaps we can dedicate a thread that would furnish the stuff that matter is made of, and this perceived knowing would furnish a fine preamble for the first time we met. That's not pettytalk, just my soul trying to remember why the hell I came back. I was doing fine, on cloud nine. It's just the Temptations.
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15 Dec 23
@pettytalk saidIn fairness, Christians run the risk of worshipping the wrong God.
In the end the atheist risks being wrong on the existence of God.
@pettytalk saidAnd what do you believe the "risk to our souls" is?
In the end the atheist risks being wrong on the existence of God. That other risk, the one posed to the soul, cannot be mitigated no matter what our convictions are. Sorry, wrong word, insert "beliefs." It will be our actions and not our beliefs, or non beliefs, which matter in the end. Let me be more specific. Our good, evil, or indifferent actions performed don't matter i ...[text shortened]... to why, where, when, and how we conduct ourselves in physical life which poses a risk to our souls.
15 Dec 23
@pettytalk said"Paranoid" about what? About "being wrong on the existence of God"?
Now, I suppose that you will have a great comeback with Christianity, to what I have just asserted on, "it doesn't matter in whose name." You are an intelligent person, but a little paranoid, in my view.
15 Dec 23
@pettytalk saidGiven that all we can do, when it comes to supernatural phenomena and beings, is speculate and reach profoundly subjective deductions, what is the objective value of certainty?
Exactly, you are an atheist who is not certain of your atheism. You can look it up all you want, but that's what you are, in essence.
"Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and are agnostic because they claim that the existence of a divine entity or entities is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact." ~ wiki
15 Dec 23
@pettytalk saidIs this conjecture on your part based on some experience of your own of a complete loss of faith or is it based on the fact that ~ given the strength and constancy of your own faith ~ you simply have no way of understanding what it is like to not be Christian?
That would explain exactly why you switched sides midway from being a Christian. Perhaps something unexpected will happen to you, personally, which will make you switch again.
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16 Dec 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidMistakes are made on both sides. Again playing it safe, it's best to worship all the gods, as one of them has to be the right one. FMF asked for it, and I was only trying to sell him an umbrella insurance policy.
In fairness, Christians run the risk of worshipping the wrong God.
The risk of worshiping the wrong God for any Christian is that the risk remains at home. They should be worshiping the Father, and not the Son. The Son is also a god, but then this son also said that we are all gods.
16 Dec 23
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@pettytalk saidDo you really think someone can be convinced of some supernatural claim using the argument that believing it is "playing it safe"?
FMF asked for it, and I was only trying to sell him an umbrella insurance policy.
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16 Dec 23
@divegeester saidI'm afraid that you have me at a disadvantage with this elsewhere.
No, you use it elsewhere also.
Have we met elsewhere? I do have a twin brother, but he's pettier than I am, and not as handsome. Perhaps you have mistaken me for him elsewhere?
16 Dec 23
@pettytalk saidDidn't you - "PettyTalk" - come here at the invitation of "Earl of Trumps" from the chat room of that website dealing with unexplained mysteries?
I'm afraid that you have me at a disadvantage with this elsewhere.
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16 Dec 23
@fmf saidDo believe we have a soul?
And what do you believe the "risk to our souls" is?
If I were to tell you what I believe the risk to a soul is, I would be wasting my time, if you deny the possibility that we all have a soul.
Be a good fellow and tell me why you were a Christian for so long? Surely, as a Christian, you must have been introduced to one of Jesus' iconic references to the soul, right?
According to Jesus the risk a soul runs is the risk of gaining the whole physical world. And if you gain the whole world you will become so wealthy that it would be easier for an elephant to go through the eye of the needle my mother used for mending my socks, than you getting to heaven. I'm just using you in general, to make a point on the risk of needling you.
@pettytalk saidDo believe we have a soul?
Do believe we have a soul?
If I were to tell you what I believe the risk to a soul is, I would be wasting my time, if you deny the possibility that we all have a soul.
Be a good fellow and tell me why you were a Christian for so long? Surely, as a Christian, you must have been introduced to one of Jesus' iconic references to the soul, right?
According to Jesus ...[text shortened]... n you getting to heaven. I'm just using you in general, to make a point on the risk of needling you.
I believe we have consciousness and that each of us has access to our unique narratives, where we are the protagonists, and these things give each of us our personhood. I think it is onto this personhood, with its capacity for abstraction, that theists project the notion of a supernatural thing called a "soul".