Is god allowed to ask us anything?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
I recently entered into a debate about the abraham incident. You mostly know it:
Abraham had only a son, God wanted to test abe's faith(as if he didn't know it already) so he asked him to kill that son(Isaac). Abraham did so and just as he was about to butcher the isaac, god stopped him and said: "now i finally know what is in your heart thanks to this tes ...[text shortened]... ng and we should do it because our puny intellect cannot comprehend his plan?

I would be suspect of any requests from "god" to kill or hurt anything, just doesn't seem in his "origonal nature"...

Originally posted by FabianFnas
[b]"How do we know when god is speaking to us?"
We don't. If we hear voices in our heads we should go to the the shrink. They know what to do. Many revelations is given us from our subconsious, under influences of drugs or some psychriatic illness.

"Is god allowed to break his own rules? Should he? Would he be a jerk if he does?"
Not if he ...[text shortened]... month?"[/b]
No way. Only fools would.

There are alternatives to worship an evil god.[/b]

Shrinks don't always know what to do.(I'm speaking from personal experience).
A lot of the time they don't even try to establish whether the 'voices' are coming from inside or outside the head. - an important distinction if you want to get to the bottom of your "voices" origon.
Taking drugs only masks the 'problem'...(I'll try to get back on topic 🙂..)

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
I recently entered into a debate about the abraham incident. You mostly know it:
Abraham had only a son, God wanted to test abe's faith(as if he didn't know it already) so he asked him to kill that son(Isaac). Abraham did so and just as he was about to butcher the isaac, god stopped him and said: "now i finally know what is in your heart thanks to this tes ...[text shortened]... ng and we should do it because our puny intellect cannot comprehend his plan?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi

How do we know when god is speaking to us?
Sensus divinitatis.

-Is god allowed to break his own rules?
Of course. Not that I'm implying that the Abraham story would reliably lead us to that conclusion.

-Would you worship the supreme being if he asked you to murder babies each month?
There are too many unknowns to answer that. Suppose, for example, that true worship requires obedience, that god makes it clear that the penalty or disobedience is eternal torture, and god also reveals to you that the designated babies are actually little Damiens (antichrists) in human form. Still confident you'll say no?

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Suppose, for example, that true worship requires obedience, that god makes it clear that the penalty or disobedience is eternal torture, and god also reveals to you that the designated babies are actually little Damiens (antichrists) in human form. Still confident you'll say no?

I'm confident I'd start gibbering if he kept that up.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Shrinks don't always know what to do.(I'm speaking from personal experience).
A lot of the time they don't even try to establish whether the 'voices' are coming from inside or outside the head. - an important distinction if you want to get to the bottom of your "voices" origon.
Taking drugs only masks the 'problem'...(I'll try to get back on topic 🙂..)

I too hear voices inside my head. But I know for a fact that these voices is produced by my own brains and iare called thoughts.

But when I hear voices that I know for sure that they are not produced by my own brain, but of other origin, it's then I need help.

If these voices tell me to kill kittens, little girls, or my own son, then I would be really scared. As long I'm scared I know something is wrong with me and I can go and seek help. If I really really believe that some fictional entity, like Yoda, deamons or god tells me to do this and that, and I welcome these messages and without any other thought carry on and obey these instructions, like Abe, the girl killer from Arvika (Sweden), or Jim Jones the christian leader of the suicide sect in Jonestown (Guyana), then it's real bad.

Psycriatrists can do some, medical treatment doesn't solve the problem, but can have the symptoms in check, a priest nor a excorcist can do nothing.

Originally posted by FabianFnas

Psycriatrists can do some, medical treatment doesn't solve the problem, but can have the symptoms in check, a priest nor a excorcist can do nothing.

Shamanistic healing might be a good idea too -- although probably not for you.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Shamanistic healing might be a good idea too -- although probably not for you.

Ah, you're right, I forgot the effect of placebo.

If I believe that a priest can heal me, then the probability is higher that he really can than if I don't believe it. Same goes for a shaman, and even a psyciatrist.

I once went to the farmaceutical drug store and had a reciept. I got the pills and when she told me what it would cost, I said: "Oh, that was expensive, to you have the same pill as Placebo?" She responded "Yes I have, but that has the same price. If it was sheaper, you wouldn't believe in them."

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Ah, you're right, I forgot the effect of placebo.

If I believe that a priest can heal me, then the probability is higher that he really can than if I don't believe it. Same goes for a shaman, and even a psyciatrist.

I once went to the farmaceutical drug store and had a reciept. I got the pills and when she told me what it would cost, I said: "Oh, th ...[text shortened]... es I have, but that has the same price. If it was sheaper, you wouldn't believe in them."

Psychiatry is functionally analogous to shamanism in modern society, although probably less effective.

I wouldn't glibly dismiss shamanism as the placebo effect. In fact I wouldn't hasten to explain it away at all.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Psychiatry is functionally analogous to shamanism in modern society, although probably less effective.

I wouldn't glibly dismiss shamanism as the placebo effect. In fact I wouldn't hasten to explain it away at all.

No, you're right, I wouldn't believe a treatment from a shamanist myself. I wouldn't believe a psyachrist eitheer, unless he took a realy hefty hourly charge and had a lot of diploma on the walls.

Are there shamanists taking a hefty charge and having a lot of diploma on his walls?

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Originally posted by Zahlanzi

[b]How do we know when god is speaking to us?
Sensus divinitatis.

-Is god allowed to break his own rules?
Of course. Not that I'm implying that the Abraham story would reliably lead us to that conclusion.

-Would you worship the supreme being if he asked you to murder babies each month?
The ...[text shortened]... babies are actually little Damiens (antichrists) in human form. Still confident you'll say no?[/b]

"Sensus divinitatis."
how do you tell this from indigestion, a bump to the head, schizophrenia, sun stroke, someone putting magic shrooms in your hamburger?

"Of course. Not that I'm implying that the Abraham story would reliably lead us to that conclusion."
why would a omniscient being break his own rules? and i am not talking about setting a rule in one age and replacing it when humanity has changed enough. i am talking about randomly breaking the rules sometimes while still keeping them in place. and why isn't the abraham story a violation of rules set forth by god himself?


"There are too many unknowns to answer that. Suppose, for example, that true worship requires obedience, that god makes it clear that the penalty or disobedience is eternal torture, and god also reveals to you that the designated babies are actually little Damiens (antichrists) in human form. Still confident you'll say no?"
have you ever thought that he is testing you to see if you will commit murder?

moses hasn't said "thou shalt not kill except when..... " with number 3 on the list being "god tells you to" and number 15 being "the person being murdered is a Damien". also have you considered the devil speaking as if god and telling you to kill innocent babies? how do you know that the supernatural being(assuming you really think it is real and not a hallucination) is angelic or demonic?
shouldn't there be a convention, soemthing like a password as in "God, when you speak to me, so i know it is you, don't ask me to murder someone in a brutal fashion."

Originally posted by FabianFnas
No, you're right, I wouldn't believe a treatment from a shamanist myself. I wouldn't believe a psyachrist eitheer, unless he took a realy hefty hourly charge and had a lot of diploma on the walls.

Are there shamanists taking a hefty charge and having a lot of diploma on his walls?

That's not what I meant. But no, shamans don't have diplomas, as far as I know. Shamanism is a vocation, quite literally; you don't choose it, it chooses you.

If you're interested in shamanism you can read up about it yourself. Korean shamanism is a good example because the tradition is still intact and, just for a twist, it's mostly practiced by women.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
That's not what I meant. But no, shamans don't have diplomas, as far as I know. Shamanism is a vocation, quite literally; you don't choose it, it chooses you.

If you're interested in shamanism you can read up about it yourself. Korean shamanism is a good example because the tradition is still intact and, just for a twist, it's mostly practiced by women.

It hasn't choosed me, not yet. Until then I don't hope I catch some scitzophrenia.

(Why is that word so hard to spell? Like dyslexia, who can spell that? Dyslexians cannot...)

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Shamanism is a vocation, quite literally; you don't choose it, it chooses you.

I doubt you can make any accurate general statements about shamanism. The term refers to a wide range of practices all over the world.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I doubt you can make any accurate general statements about shamanism. The term refers to a wide range of practices all over the world.

I've refrained from making any. But that one, I think, is correct in most cases, judging from reports of shamanistic practices all over the world.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
It hasn't choosed me, not yet. Until then I don't hope I catch some scitzophrenia.

(Why is that word so hard to spell? Like dyslexia, who can spell that? Dyslexians cannot...)

Dyslexians are ruled by Gnim the Smericles.

I can't believe you have no curiosity about shamanism. Do give this a glance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_shamanism