Is god almighty?

Originally posted by bbarr
Talk of possible worlds is just a way of fleshing out the notion of logical possibility.

Yes, I have been struggling with this. As I said in my initial analysis, I thought that that interpretation of the verse was a tautology. But the proposition that you stated is clearly not a tautology, but this most recent elaboration makes it seem like it is.

I think the confusing issue is that due to the form of Jesus' sentence, possibility seems to be the attribute of a set of things under consideration. But I think this is confusing. What is really being described is God, not the set of all things. And the ability to realize all logically possible things is the predicate, not the property of being possible.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Yes, I have been struggling with this. As I said in my initial analysis, I thought that that interpretation was a tautology. But the proposition that you stated is clearly not a tautology, but this most recent elaboration makes it seem like it is.

I think the confusing issue is that in Jesus' sentence, possibility seems to be the attribute of a ...[text shortened]... y to realize all logically possible things is the predicate, not the property of being possible.

On what interpretation would the following sentences differ in their truth-values?

1) With bbarr, all things are possible.

2) With God, all things are possible.

It seems the difference is that I do not have the ability to make actual any possible world, whereas God, presumably, does. So, I guess you should take 'all' to refer to all logically possible states of affairs, and 'possible' to mean 'able to be brought about'. That is, interpret 'possible' colloquially.

Originally posted by checkbaiter


BTW.. The Bible was written for believers, not for skeptics.

The Bible was not written for unbelievers, but for those willing to search diligently for the truth. Some of the language of Scripture is written with the specific intent of confounding those who either do not have ears willing to hear or who are unwilling to be diligent in their study ...[text shortened]... mportant to be diligent in study and realize that God does not honor study for study’s sake.

I find this pretty ridiculous. If the Bible was not written for skeptics, there would be no believers. People are not born believing the bible. We are all skeptics at one point or another. You're a skeptic to. You interpret the Bible the way that you choose and reject other peoples interpretation. If you weren't a skeptic, you would accept all the 100's of branches of Christianity without question.

What about all the wordly people who rejected the Bible all their lives but then accepted it? What about the drunks, junkies, etc who have changed their lives around with the help of Jesus? Face it, the Bible was written for everybody.

"Some of the language of Scripture is written with the specific intent of confounding those who either do not have ears willing to hear or who are unwilling to be diligent in their study"

The Bible is confusing yes, but I don't believe that that was Gods intention. It was probably more like, God's word is perfect, and a multitude of human (imperfect) authors tried to duplicate it. Then it got edited by the church, mistranslated and misinterpreted. Finally, 2000 years later, it is what it is, the truth filtered by humans. Which is why there are 100's of branches of Christianity.

"To arrive at the truth, one must have faith in God and trust in the integrity of His Word."

Common sense in important as well.

Originally posted by bbarr
So, I guess you should take 'all' to refer to all logically possible states of affairs, and 'possible' to mean 'able to be brought about'. That is, interpret 'possible' colloquially.

That makes sense.

Here's a mildly interesting observation. Consider these two propositions:

3) God has the property that he can bring about any logically possible state of affairs.

4) All logically possible states of affairs have the property that God can bring them about.

Unless I'm mistaken, these are logically equivalent. However, (4) is closer in form to Jesus' sentence, but (3) is semantically closer, I think, since his emphasis was on describing a property of God, not on describing properties of logically possible things.

If asked to put Jesus' sentence in symbolic propositional form and then translate it back to (3) or (4), What Would Wittgenstein Do?

Originally posted by checkbaiter


Prov 2:1-5
1 My son, if you receive my words, and treasure my commands within you,
2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom, and apply your heart to understanding;
3 [b]Yes, if you cry out for discernment, and lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you ...[text shortened]... nowledge, wisdom, etc.

And the best part is ...we have nothing to loose and all to gain..
🙂

"If you had looked up the verses posted, you would see that God is not interested ( for lack of a better word for the time being) in skeptics."

If you believe that God created us, than you believe that we are all God's children. Sounds like he would be interested to me.

"He is saying that people who don't see God's glory in His creation, will not find Him. That is why Jesus spoke in parables..."

Luke 8:10
10 And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.'

Face it, you have no idea what the "mysteries of the kingdom of God" are. You read the parables like everybody else.

Originally posted by The Chess Express
I find this pretty ridiculous. If the Bible was not written for skeptics, there would be no believers. People are not born believing the bible. We are all skeptics at one point or another. You're a skeptic to. You interpret the Bible the way that you choose and reject other peoples interpretation. If you weren't a skeptic, you would accept all th ...[text shortened]... ave faith in God and trust in the integrity of His Word."

Common sense in important as well.

I find this pretty ridiculous. If the Bible was not written for skeptics, there would be no believers. People are not born believing the bible. We are all skeptics at one point or another.

As I stated, for lack of a better word, I used "skeptic". I am still not sure if that is the right word, but look at it this way. An ignorant person is excusable, that is because an ignorant person simply does not know. You can only know as much as you have been taught, including self taught.
An ignorant person has not "heard".
Now stupid is someone who has learned and refuses the instruction. This is different from ignorant. These are the one's who will not learn/understand God because they refuse.
When I said skeptic, I had this type in mind. Now, having said that, you are the one who will have to explain the verses mentioned. And you have not.
I disagree with your premise that I am a skeptic because of the way I interpret the bible. The bible can only be interpreted one way. That is God's way. Again I admit I do not have all the answers, but the verses I mentioned are all very clear. And there are many more saying the same thing. So your disagreement is not with me.

You interpret the Bible the way that you choose and reject other peoples interpretation. If you weren't a skeptic, you would accept all the 100's of branches of Christianity without question.

This would be impossible, since they contradict one another. But it does not make me a skeptic.

What about all the wordly people who rejected the Bible all their lives but then accepted it? What about the drunks, junkies, etc who have changed their lives around with the help of Jesus? Face it, the Bible was written for everybody.

I have no arguement here. But at one point these people changed. God through His word, or some other way got through the crusty heart. Then they believed, then through the study of the word of God they started to learn, their understanding was "opened" by God.

The Bible is confusing yes, but I don't believe that that was Gods intention. It was probably more like, God's word is perfect, and a multitude of human (imperfect) authors tried to duplicate it. Then it got edited by the church, mistranslated and misinterpreted. Finally, 2000 years later, it is what it is, the truth filtered by humans. Which is why there are 100's of branches of Christianity.

Allright, I agree, but it is avaliable to get back to the "perfect" word through study. Most of it is right on just as it stands.

2 Tim 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
(KJV)

Common sense in important as well.

Absolutely!

Originally posted by The Chess Express

Face it, you have no idea what the "mysteries of the kingdom of God" are. You read the parables like everybody else.

Actually, I have learned some of the "mysteries". No, not all, and probably not till we enter His Kingdom.
Yes, I have read the parables but not like "all" else. I pray, and ask God to show me things. I have also had great teachers.
When you say "like everyone else", are you trying to belittle me?
Some read in unbelief. Many for a variety of reasons, some noble, some not.
And let's get something straight Chess Express. I don't condemn anyone. It is not my place. And I respect everyone's position. But I do take a stand on God's word no matter who believes. No matter who is offended. That is part of the problem with many Christians today. They compromise and water down God's word.
Jesus Christ made us Ambassadors for Him. We are to ..

2 Tim 4:2-4
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
(NKJ)

Peace....

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]I find this pretty ridiculous. If the Bible was not written for skeptics, there would be no believers. People are not born believing the bible. We are all skeptics at one point or another.

As I stated, for lack of a better word, I used "skeptic". I am still not sure if that is the right word, but look at it this way. An ignorant person is exc ...[text shortened]... y dividing the word of truth.
(KJV)

Common sense in important as well.

Absolutely![/b]

"I disagree with your premise that I am a skeptic because of the way I interpret the bible. The bible can only be interpreted one way. That is God's way. Again I admit I do not have all the answers, but the verses I mentioned are all very clear."

If the verses of the Bible were very clear and could only be interpreted in one way, there would only be one Christianity. You accept your interpretation and reject others. This phenomena would not occur if you were not skeptical.

"This would be impossible, since they contradict one another. But it does not make me a skeptic."

They contridict one another because they to are skepitics as you are.

Skepticism: A doubting or questioning attitude or state of mind. Doubt or disbelief of religious tenets.

You doubt Catholicism so you don't pray to Marry. In the same way they doubt your brand of Christianity. This is skepticisim.

"Now, having said that, you are the one who will have to explain the verses mentioned."

Luke 8:10
10 And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.'

Well, I don't claim to know the Bible, but let me try to use a common sense approach. Jesus was speaking directly to his disciples that were present at the time. This makes a difference. If Jesus appeared before you and told you everything you ever wanted to know (this may have happened), this would be a lot different than trying to figure out the Bible would it not?

Why did Jesus say the rest will not understand the Bible? Because we don't. You admitted yourself (to my relief) that you don't have all the answers. As long as you focus your energy on deciphering scripture you probably won't have all the answers. Nobody will. God cannot be found in scripture.

Jer 29:13 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."

It's not necessary to even know how to read in order to have a heart. Searching with the heart does not mean memorizing the Bible cover to cover.

Perhaps Jesus knew it had to be this way. Again, perfect God, imperfect humans. The scripture can wet a persons appetite, but that's all it can do. It's up to the individual to find God through his/her own spiritual practices. This is the way it should be. Otherwise any old scholar would be a saint.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Actually, I have learned some of the "mysteries". No, not all, and probably not till we enter His Kingdom.
Yes, I have read the parables but not like "all" else. I pray, and ask God to show me things. I have also had great teachers.
When you say "like everyone else", are you trying to belittle me?
Some read in unbelief. Many for a variety of rea ...[text shortened]... hey will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
(NKJ)

Peace....

"When you say "like everyone else", are you trying to belittle me?"

I'm sorry if I got carried away. No, I do not wish to belittle you. When you said:

"He is saying that people who don't see God's glory in His creation, will not find Him.
That is why Jesus spoke in parables..." Luke 8:10
10 And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.'"

It started to sound like you were saying you knew all the mysteries of God's kingdom because you read the scripture or something like that. I probably misinterpreted that. To err is human...

"And let's get something straight Chess Express. I don't condemn anyone. It is not my place. And I respect everyone's position. But I do take a stand on God's word no matter who believes. No matter who is offended."

The trouble with this position is that if you say "believe as I do or burn in Hell forever", there is not much distinction between this and condemning somebody to hell.

Isa 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the Heavens are higher than the Earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Since we can't say what God's ways are or know what God is thinking, it is not appropriate to tell somebody that they will burn in Hell.

BTW, this might also explain why the scripture is not perfect.

Peace. 🙂

Originally posted by The Chess Express
"I disagree with your premise that I am a skeptic because of the way I interpret the bible. The bible can only be interpreted one way. That is God's way. Again I admit I do not have all the answers, but the verses I mentioned are all very clear."

If the verses of the Bible were very clear and could only be interpreted in one way, there would ...[text shortened]... n spiritual practices. This is the way it should be. Otherwise any old scholar would be a saint.

If the verses of the Bible were very clear and could only be interpreted in one way, there would only be one Christianity.

Excactly my point. That is why there are so many denominations. They all have some truth. But they all have error. I am not saying I am error free, but to the best of my understanding, what I have stated, I believe.
If you choose not to agree, that's fine with me. I can still call you "brother."
And we can "agree to disagree" and get no where. But we can be friends anyway.
So for the time being we can simply disagree. There is way too much to cover, on this type of format, to present what I have to say. I would be typing all night.
I suppose we would have to start from the very basics, which we probably would disagree on also.

As long as you focus your energy on deciphering scripture you probably won't have all the answers. Nobody will. God cannot be found in scripture.

Another point I disagree with.

Ps 138:2
2 I will worship toward Your holy temple, and praise Your name for Your lovingkindness and Your truth; for You have magnified Your word above all Your name.
(NKJ)

Do you understand what God is saying in the second part of this verse?
This is big...think about it.

Jer 29:13 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."

Where do you think He will be found? Time magazine? Perhaps science? How about the UN?...no, He is found in His word which He magnified above all His name. We do not have to "memorize" the whole bible. I can't. But as I read and pray and ask for understanding, I learn as God wills. I know that we can learn in life experiences, but rarely without a knowledge of God.

Eph 3:2-4
2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,
3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,
4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),
(NKJ)


Col 1:9-12
9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 that you may have a walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy;
12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
(NKJ)

I would highly recommend this site.....
http://www.truthortradition.com/

Peace.........

🙂

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]If the verses of the Bible were very clear and could only be interpreted in one way, there would only be one Christianity.

Excactly my point. That is why there are so many denominations. They all have some truth. But they all have error. I am not saying I am error free, but to the best of my understanding, what I have stated, I believe.
If you ...[text shortened]... would highly recommend this site.....
http://www.truthortradition.com/

Peace.........

🙂[/b]

If you can't find God within you, you'll never find him in the scripture. If you do find God within you, then it won't matter if you read the scripture.

Originally posted by The Chess Express
If you can't find God within you, you'll never find him in the scripture. If you do find God within you, then it won't matter if you read the scripture.

Actually, after God is "found" in the/through scripture....
Then He comes in you (holy spirit).

John 14:23
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
(KJV)

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Actually, after God is "found" in the/through scripture....
Then He comes in you (holy spirit).

John 14:23
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my[b] words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
(KJV)[/b]

Again, the scripture just gets people interested in God. I think we would both agree that God cannot be explained by scripture, so it's up to the individual to accept God into their heart. This is why Jesus said "If a man love me". That doesn't happen by trying to make sense of the Bible. It happens by experiencing God.

In the four gospels Jesus gives us guide lines for how to live our lives, so really this is the most useful part of the bible in my opinion. The rest is too confusing.

Originally posted by The Chess Express
Again, the scripture just gets people interested in God. I think we would both agree that God cannot be explained by scripture, so it's up to the individual to accept God into their heart. This is why Jesus said "If a man love me". That doesn't happen by trying to make sense of the Bible. It happens by experiencing God.

In the four gospels ...[text shortened]... s, so really this is the most useful part of the bible in my opinion. The rest is too confusing.

The scriptures not only get people interested in God. It is the manual for life. One cannot just "experience" God and abandon the scriptures. This is a fallacy. God would have to direct your every step. Your every thought. I read the scriptures to get closer to God. You will never learn all in the bible.
But we are to continue to study and pray and ask for understanding.

Luke 24:45
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
(NKJ)

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The scriptures not only get people interested in God. It is the manual for life. One cannot just "experience" God and abandon the scriptures. This is a fallacy. God would have to direct your every step. Your every thought. I read the scriptures to get closer to God. You will never learn all in the bible.
But we are to continue to study and pray and a ...[text shortened]... e 24:45
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
(NKJ)

"One cannot just 'experience' God and abandon the scriptures. This is a fallacy. God would have to direct your every step. Your every thought."

This is my point. God will direct our every step and thought if we experience him. At this point, the scriptures become unnecessary.

Rev 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man here my voice, and open the door, I will come into him, and sup with him, and he with me."

If we experience God than he tells us with his own voice what we need to know.

"You will never learn all in the bible. But we are to continue to study and pray and ask for understanding."

Luke 24:45
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

It seems like you've contridicted yourself. This passage says that the only way to comprehend the Bible is by experiencing God.