Is God the Creator of reality?

Originally posted by Coletti
Theorems were not created. They were discovered.

If they were discovered, they must exist. How did they come into existence?

Originally posted by Coletti
Theorems were not created. They were discovered. And they were a necessary consequence of having a rational mind. Logic is just the formulation of rationality.

Nonetheless, they are real, as is the number 2 and the property of transitivity. Hence, if they are not created then Lucifer S.'s definition of 'reality' is flawed.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
If they were discovered, they must exist. How did they come into existence?

What is existence?

Originally posted by Coletti
What is existence?

Yo' mama.

Originally posted by bbarr
Nonetheless, they are real, as is the number 2 and the property of transitivity. Hence, if they are not created then Lucifer S.'s definition of 'reality' is flawed.

I agree. I speak for myself. I think Lucifer S's definition described what I would call the empirical reality - reality found in time and space that God created.

2 and transitivity are also real, but they are not empirical, they are rational. So they existed before time and space - or they are a necessary consequence of the interaction of the rational with the empirical.

Originally posted by LemonJello
blindfaith101,

i have re-read genesis chapters 2 and 3. having done so, i do not think they demonstrate the existence of free will. in fact, if i had to choose one way or the other, i would argue they demonstrate the lack of free will (though i think this argument would be weak). ultimately, i do not think the passages are conclusive either way. i ...[text shortened]... genesis chapters 2 and 3 would support your ideas that free will does not exist. do you agree?

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest eat: But the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. GENESIS 2:16,17
GOD clearly gave man intructions. Man could eat of every tree except one. Clearly giving man a choice. Man could obey GOD or be disobedient. GOD gave man the free choice of what he could eat and not eat.
Man was in the place of Blessing. Everything in his life was good.There was no evil in his life at all. Which would mean that man was under the Laws of blessing. Man had a good job. Man had a good married. He had the opportunity to make good choices. Every thing was good in his life. He had no first hand knowledge of evil. He had no real idea of what death was, and what it meant.
Man had the free choice to live the good life, in fact he was commanded to.

Originally posted by Coletti
What is existence?

Existence is one property shared by all things that are discovered. It is the property that without which, they could not have been discovered.

Originally posted by bbarr
Nonetheless, they are real, as is the number 2 and the property of transitivity. Hence, if they are not created then Lucifer S.'s definition of 'reality' is flawed.

We are talking about two different (though related) notions (orders?) or reality here. As Coletti puts it, what I'm talking about is empirical reality whereas what you're talking about is the reality of abstractions. We're using the term "real"/"reality" in two different senses.

LH

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Existence is one property shared by all things that are discovered. It is the property that without which, they could not have been discovered.

What about the number 2? Was it discovered? And freedom, is it real? And unicorns? And Pi? And truth, does it exist?

Originally posted by Coletti
What about the number 2? Was it discovered?

Certainly. According to Genesis, even Noah knew about it.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Certainly. According to Genesis, even Noah knew about it.

So then before it was discovered 2 did not exist?

Originally posted by Coletti
So then before it was discovered 2 did not exist?

No. You've got it backwards. Existence is a necessary property that allows something to be discovered. Being discovered is not a necessary property for something to exist.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
No. You've got it backwards. Existence is a necessary property that allows something to be discovered. Being discovered is not a necessary property for something to exist.

Okay. Then what is existence? Describe the property of existence, not what the effect of the property.

And tell me what does not exist.

Originally posted by Coletti

And tell me what does not exist.

A big boat that houses two animals of every sort. Such a thing does not and has never existed.

Also, talking serpents do not exist.

Nor do days when the sun stands still in the sky.

In general, anything that would logically yield a contradiction if it were to exist along with everything else whose existence is already accepted cannot exist.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
A big boat that houses two animals of every sort. Such a thing does not and has never existed.

Also, talking serpents do not exist.

Nor do days when the sun stands still in the sky.

In general, anything that would logically yield a contradiction if it were to exist along with everything else whose existence is already accepted cannot exist.

But you still have not defined existence. What is it?

Also, does freedom exist? What about truth?