Is Jesus God? – Logical questions that need answers Part 1

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I agree 100%...

Glad that we can agree on something 100% .. 🙂

Originally posted by Dasa
This is the foolishness of Christianity.

To create an emotional and gut wrenching connection to Christianity the fabricators of the Bible have given us the absurd story that God hangs on a cross and bleeds to death in great pain.

The creator of heaven and earth does not hang on crosses.......not then - not now - and not ever in the future.

This sad st ...[text shortened]... e can I say?

Oh yes.......the person on the cross was not the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

I have to totally agree with Dasa here. The supreme Being who Christians call God the Father of us all and Christ, does not hang on crosses.

Originally posted by sonship

God is not just in Christ. God is in all men and in all of creation.
Yet every man and every aspect of creation are separate and distinct entities.

Explain what you mean by "God is in all men and in all of creation" please.

The idea which I expressed has its roots in the following:

1. In Gen 3:5 the serpent told Eve that ..in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. . God confirmed this in v 22: .. Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil

2. The idea of turning a man into a god is expressed in Exodus when God told Moses that he was going to make him like God to Pharoah. This just means that God will give him enough power to make Pharoah think that he is God.

3. David expressed the idea that men are all gods in their own right and Christ repeated that sentiment Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

4. God breathed his life-giving spirit into man and all living beings. We have Gods life in us.

5. Pauls speech on Mars Hill expresses some of these points :

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being, (Acts 17:24-28 KJV) ;

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have to totally agree with Dasa here. The supreme Being who Christians call God the Father of us all and Christ, does not hang on crosses.

God "cannot die" so the cross is out of the picture for him... Was never on earth as a human and in fact he has never turned himself into anything other then what he is and that is a spirit being that has no rivals.
If God was this mysterious godhead thingy, those scripture that speak of God having no rivals would have said "we" have no rivals. No scripture ever even slightly suggest a thought of God being some multi headed or multi person spirit.

Rubbish........and it is offensive to teach such falsity.

You don't have any experience of it. That's why you say its rubbish.

Let's ask someone who had pioneering experience - Paul.

"I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me ..." (Gal. 2:20)

Paul had no hope in any kind of self improvement spiritual or otherwise. What liberated him from his old sinful self was the revelation that he has been crucified with Christ.

That is also your only hope. The whole self has to be put to death and raised by identification with Christ and Christ coming into your spirit.

"Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him." (Rom. 5:8)

The death and resurrection of Jesus is applicable to operate in our own lives. This is why the symbol of immersion into water in baptism signifies the entire Christian life. Because we are one with Him we can apply His death on the cross and His rising from the grave to our own being practically.

"We who have died to sin, how shall we still live in it? Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death ? We have been buried therefore with Him through baptism into His death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the death through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk in newness of life." (v.3,4)

So Christ's death is a great and glorious liberating termination of the sinful self. And through Him we can declare by faith that we have been crucified and buried with Him - ALL the negative things have been terminated with Him. And we can rise with Him to "walk in newness of life".

Through His cross we can put to death the sinful habits of the fallen body - "Knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be annulled, that we should no longer serve sin as slaves. For he who has died is justified from sin." (vs. 6,7)

The death of Christ on His cross is a mighty victory which the Christian can apply to his moment by moment daily life. You have nothing in comparison to the power of this truth.

The fact is: Christianity needed a story to get the foolish people to embrace their church.

Christ died not only to redeem us from the judgment of God, being judged on our behalf. But He also died to terminate the old sinful man as by faith, we co-identify with Him. Being in union with Him now His death crosses out the old man. We are liberated to walk in newness of life.

"But they who are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and its lusts. If we live by the Spirit let us also walk by the Spirit." (Gal. 5:25,26)

You don't know anything about this. So as a foolish scoffing man who is drunken with pride, you dismiss the Gospel as "rubbish". You have nothing more effective and nothing more true.

When you start threads I don't come over and interfere with your trying to teach your philosophy. You have to leave off teaching your own faith to come and argue with believers in Christ.

You would think that the entire life of God would be documented....but its not.

No you would not.

The thirty years the Son of God lived in Nazareth are mostly silent. He blended in with everyone else. He caused no great stir. He caused no great commotion. He lived a perfect life in preparation to pass on that wealth to us in the Holy Spirit.

Only at the beginning of His ministry at 30 years of age, He begins to talk about what He has LIVED for all His life. What He taught was what He had been living Himself. So He spoke with utter authority.

IF we want to know about those years in which the Bible was mostly silent we have to become Christians. And then in our daily lives we will see how the Holy Spirit moves in us to do this or to do that. We learn about how He lived by living Him. We learn about Him by being one with Him and allowing Him to live again, this time within us and in union with us.

I assure you that you have NOTHING more effective and more true that the life of union with the resurrected Jesus.

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

Jesus Christ today is also in the form of "life giving Spirit" in order to come into our hearts and live again in union with our lives.

"For me to live is Christ" said the Apostle Paul.

Christianity is the religion of the flesh eaters and animal slaughterers (this conduct is cruel and disgraceful)

You are an idol worshipper of cattle. How can you see the riches of living in union with the resurrected Son of God. You are more impressed with your cow which you worship.

Your cow is not going to save you even if you don't eat him or her.

I normally would be sensitive about other's sacred traditions. But you are on the attack against the glorious Gospel of Christ. So we play hard ball. Stop worshipping your cow.

See that the Son of God has died and risen for your salvation.

Meat eating is unacceptable for those who are on the spiritual path.

True religion forbids meat eating.

Baloney (no pun intended). There is no law to or not to eat meat in the Christian Gospel. You may refrain from eating meat if you wish. No New Testament book demands that a Christian MUST eat meat.

I don't mind eating meat. It reminds me that someone had to DIE in order that I might be reconciled to God. The eating of meat is useful in reminding that without the shedding of blood of the Redeemer there was no forgiveness of sins.

Christ carried up my sins in His body to the cross. And when I see an animal had to die in order that I could eat and live, I am reminded that Christ died for the sins of the world.

But you may be a follower of Jesus Christ and be a vegetarian if you so desire.

Originally posted by Dasa
Rubbish........and it is offensive to teach such falsity.

The fact is: Christianity needed a story to get the foolish people to embrace their church.

The story of Jesus is fabricated because how is it that Jesus disappeared for 30 years after his birth and then popped up when he was 32?

You would think that the entire life of God would be documented.. ...[text shortened]... the Vedas would fill a library.

You must not accept religion blindly or you will be cheated.

Jesus was 31 and a half years old at His anointing baptism. The Vedas is distorted teachings from ancient descendants of Adam and Eve. The Holy Bible has superseded it now.

The Instructor

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Jesus was just a man like Adam. He is in fact referred to as the 2nd Adam in the Epistles. He was created by God in Mary. His bloodline goes back to David and even Adam.
Where the 1st Adam failed, the 2nd Adam succeeded whereby he did not fall for the temptation of Satan. He had sinless blood, he was God's plan to redeem man from Genesis 3:15.
That is ...[text shortened]... not be tempted but his son could. If Jesus was God, Satan would not even attempt to tempt him.

Just because someone can be tempted does not mean they will be or succumb to the temptation....I think in the case of Christ he would not(could not) fall for the temptation but the fact that he was in the flesh is why it was physically possible for Satan to try and temp Jesus. It was Proof that Jesus was also man. 100% man 100% God

Manny

Originally posted by galveston75
God "cannot die" so the cross is out of the picture for him... Was never on earth as a human and in fact he has never turned himself into anything other then what he is and that is a spirit being that has no rivals.
If God was this mysterious godhead thingy, those scripture that speak of God having no rivals would have said "we" have no rivals. No scri ...[text shortened]... ever even slightly suggest a thought of God being some multi headed or multi person spirit.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness Gen 1:26 why is it not translated Let me make man in my image? Instead it has plurality why G-Man ?

Also Genesis 11:7
Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language,

What is this plurality ? interesting

Manny

Originally posted by Dasa
This is the foolishness of Christianity.

To create an emotional and gut wrenching connection to Christianity the fabricators of the Bible have given us the absurd story that God hangs on a cross and bleeds to death in great pain.

The creator of heaven and earth does not hang on crosses.......not then - not now - and not ever in the future.

This sad st ...[text shortened]... e can I say?

Oh yes.......the person on the cross was not the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

You don't post here much, you should post more.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have to totally agree with Dasa here. The supreme Being who Christians call God the Father of us all and Christ, does not hang on crosses.

his erroneous assumption, based on ignorance and prejudice is that its Biblical, when in fact, its extra Biblical.

Originally posted by sonship

Rubbish........and it is offensive to teach such falsity.

You don't have any experience of it. That's why you say its rubbish.

Let's ask someone who had pioneering experience - Paul.

[b]"I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me ..." (Gal. 2:20)

Paul had no hope in any k ...[text shortened]... be a follower of Jesus Christ and be a vegetarian if you so desire.[/b]

All this Bible talk means nothing .....if don't even know that meat eating is sinful.

For the Bible to teach that slaughtering Gods creatures is fine.......means the Bible is ignorant and wrong.

You cannot go to church and sing praises to God........and then go off to a barbecue and eat the flesh of slaughtered animals.( its disgraceful)

But it also means that Christianity is false doctrine..............to not know the most simple reality of proper conduct for thoses on the spiritual path.

And then we have the rejection of reincarnation by Christianity.

Those who are enlightened and self realized know that reincarnation is fact..........because what would happen to all of the people who do not embrace spirituality in their ONE life?

The false doctrine of Christianity says that they all go to the lake of fire ( this is rubbish and wrong)

Those who pass from this earth shall all take birth again because that is the true compassion and mercy and love of the Lord.

And they shall all take birth as many times as it takes .........so they can eventually wake up from their earthly illusion of ignorance and embrace true relgion and then they can re-kindle their lost love for God.

You say they all go to hell. ( this is absurd ) and this is what you can expect from false religion.

Originally posted by Dasa
All this Bible talk means nothing .....if don't even know that meat eating is sinful.

For the Bible to teach that slaughtering Gods creatures is fine.......means the Bible is ignorant and wrong.

You cannot go to church and sing praises to God........and then go off to a barbecue and eat the flesh of slaughtered animals.( its disgraceful)

But it also me ...[text shortened]... y they all go to hell. ( this is absurd ) and this is what you can expect from false religion.

dasa, have you ever eaten a spider? or sprayed ant killer? or used bleach? drank wine? enjoyed a violin? eaten cheese? used a tennis racquet? used a fire-extinguisher? drank from a china cup? wore aftershave? used hair products? drunk beer? fabric softener? used sugar? eaten food? killed a virus? squashed a fly? made a bonfire? masturbated? had sex? gotten rid of lice? removed a tick? had a dog put down? ran over a cute mammal in the middle of the road?

how many living things do you think you have actually killed, eaten or benefited from because of their death????

Originally posted by menace71
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness Gen 1:26 why is it not translated Let me make man in my image? Instead it has plurality why G-Man ?

Also Genesis 11:7
Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language,

What is this plurality ? interesting

Manny

Angels. God speaks to angels as well.

Originally posted by menace71
Just because someone can be tempted does not mean they will be or succumb to the temptation....I think in the case of Christ he would not(could not) fall for the temptation but the fact that he was in the flesh is why it was physically possible for Satan to try and temp Jesus. It was Proof that Jesus was also man. 100% man 100% God

Manny

100% God? Yet Christ said the Father knows and does things he cannot know or do?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
dasa, have you ever eaten a spider? or sprayed ant killer? or used bleach? drank wine? enjoyed a violin? eaten cheese? used a tennis racquet? used a fire-extinguisher? drank from a china cup? wore aftershave? used hair products? drunk beer? fabric softener? used sugar? eaten food? killed a virus? squashed a fly? made a bonfire? masturbated? had sex? got ...[text shortened]... things do you think you have actually killed, eaten or benefited from because of their death????

Interesting list.