22 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhy should they? Their own individual justifications as to why their interpretation of the Bible is best are no more inferior to yours. They may use a different metric than you to determine 'bestness'.
yes, well they had better pony up the references then!
22 Apr 11
Originally posted by Agergno i do not accept that premise, it is to state that after looking at one variation all other variations are equally as sound, is that what you would have us believe agers? surely variations must be thoroughly checked with reference otherwise how can you know if the variation you favour is sound or not.
Why should they? Their own individual justifications as to why their interpretation of the Bible is best are no more inferior to yours. They may use a different metric than you to determine 'bestness'.
22 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNone of them are sound! 😵
no i do not accept that premise, it is to state that after looking at one variation all other variations are equally as sound, is that what you would have us believe agers? surely variations must be thoroughly checked with reference otherwise how can you know if the variation you favour is sound or not.
As such, the statement no variation is better than any other is true in a vacuous sense!
22 Apr 11
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell it is relative to you, that your measure of 'bestness' correlates with how many references for your book of fairy tales you have - no other Christian needs to be held to that way of thinking.
yes relative to you, but relative to each other, it cannot be the case.
22 Apr 11
Originally posted by Agergwell it goes without saying that the best variation must be the one that is the most
Well it is relative to you, that your measure of 'bestness' correlates with how many references for your book of fairy tales you have - no other Christian needs to be held to that way of thinking.
extensively researched for it draws upon a greater variety of sources or would you
say that vanilla is the best flavour of ice cream having failed to sample any others? no
neither would I.
22 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSpeaking as devil's advocate here, perhaps they might argue they need only one reference - God!
well it goes without saying that the best variation must be the one that is the most
extensively researched for it draws upon a greater variety of sources or would you
say that vanilla is the best flavour of ice cream having failed to sample any others? no
neither would I.
22 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI have sampled a few other flavors and I like vanilla best.
well it goes without saying that the best variation must be the one that is the most
extensively researched for it draws upon a greater variety of sources or would you
say that vanilla is the best flavour of ice cream having failed to sample any others? no
neither would I.
22 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieJesus didn't have a saviour (!!) I don't know what you are on about but it's not Christianity.
Jehovah is the Source of salvation, accomplished through Jesus,
how was it that Jesus had a saviour again?
As I said to Galveston, I'm not asking for further regurgitation of JW dogma I already know WHAT you believe I'm looking for the WHY when it is not scriptural (except in the JW version of the Bible) I'm asking you to explain those scriptures I've given you at least twice now. I'll give them to you again quoting my whole post just to help you not keep avoiding them:
For the Jehovah's witnesses especially; how can you say Jesus is not God, is a separate being from God and yet still be your saviour?
Hosea 13:4
"But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Saviour except me.
Act 4:8-12
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. He is ‘the stone you builders rejected', which has become the capstone.
v12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
I say the the JW's organisation follows a different Gospel and a different Saviour to Christianity. Jesus is "the only name given amongst men by which we may be saved". Not Jehovah - Jesus. The spiritual revelation of who Jesus is, is the pivotal differentiator between Christians and other sects. There is one God made manifest in different ways in order to redeem a people for himself.[/b]
22 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterI'm looking for the WHY when it is not scriptural (except in the JW version of the Bible)
Jesus didn't have a saviour (!!) I don't know what you are on about but it's not Christianity.
As I said to Galveston, I'm not asking for further regurgitation of JW dogma I already know WHAT you believe I'm looking for the WHY when it is not scriptural (except in the JW version of the Bible) I'm asking you to explain those scriptures I've given you a ...[text shortened]... de manifest in different ways in order to redeem a people for himself.[/quote][/b]
From Robbie's perspective you've answered the *why* when you mentioned it is scriptural in the JW version of the Bible ;]
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22 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterHere's a pretty good summary of the Bible wording on this question:
Jesus didn't have a saviour (!!) I don't know what you are on about but it's not Christianity.
As I said to Galveston, I'm not asking for further regurgitation of JW dogma I already know WHAT you believe I'm looking for the WHY when it is not scriptural (except in the JW version of the Bible) I'm asking you to explain those scriptures I've given you a ...[text shortened]... de manifest in different ways in order to redeem a people for himself.[/quote][/b]
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/interp/jesus_god.html
22 Apr 11
Post script:
This thread is not about translations of the Bible it's about the deity of Jesus Christ.
The JW's entered this thread because they call themselves Christians and yet do not accept that Jesus is God but claim he is a separate person from God completely. They do say he is a saviour though - (see robbie's posts). How can this be? In the Bible God is explicit in the OT that there is no other God or Saviour but him and that he will not give his glory to another. These are principles of God's character which are not open to debate. So if Jesus is not God himself revealed as Saviour, then he is an imposter stealing Gods glory.
The sect of Jehovah's Witnesses are not by definition of their doctrine "Christians".
22 Apr 11
2 edits
Originally posted by Agergthankyou Agers, why it evades our friend i have no idea, but just in case, here it is AGAIN,
[b]I'm looking for the WHY when it is not scriptural (except in the JW version of the Bible)
From Robbie's perspective you've answered the *why* when you mentioned it is scriptural in the JW version of the Bible ;][/b]
(Hebrews 5:7) . . .In the days of his flesh Christ offered up supplications and also
petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and
tears, and he was favourably heard for his godly fear
if we are to believe the absurdity of those who claim that Christ is one and the same
with God, then he must of course be petitioning himself. Strange i know, but that's
nominal Christianity for you.
22 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterIt may simply be the case that the criterion one needs to satify to be a Christian is simply different from their perspective than it is from yours - based upon their interpretation of your 'holy' book
Post script:
This thread is not about translations of the Bible it's about the deity of Jesus Christ.
The JW's entered this thread because they call themselves Christians and yet do not accept that Jesus is God but claim he is a separate person from God completely. They do say he is a saviour though - (see robbie's posts). How can this be? In t
The sect of Jehovah's Witnesses are not by definition of their doctrine "Christians".
22 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDon't expect any consistency with my ''support' for your position Robbie! - I align my views with no theist on this debate...just trying to stir the pot on all sides equally ;]
thankyou Agers, why it evades our friend i have no idea, but just in case, here it is AGAIN,
(Hebrews 5:7) . . .In the days of his flesh Christ offered up supplications and also
[b]petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and
tears, and he was favourably heard for his godly fear
if we are to believ ...[text shortened]... t of course be petitioning himself. Strange i know, but that's
nominal Christianity for you.[/b]