Is Jesus of New T LORD/Jehovah of the Old T?

Originally posted by JS357
Here's a pretty good summary of the Bible wording on this question:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/interp/jesus_god.html

It's unfortunate that the Wikipedia article for that site has been bullied off - no prizes for guessing what types of people played their part in that result! 😞

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
thankyou Agers, why it evades our friend i have no idea, but just in case, here it is AGAIN,

(Hebrews 5:7) . . .In the days of his flesh Christ offered up supplications and also
[b]petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and
tears, and he was favourably heard for his godly fear

if we are to believ ...[text shortened]... t of course be petitioning himself. Strange i know, but that's
nominal Christianity for you.[/b]

Why is it important to tell people they are wrong on this matter? It seems to be important to those on both sides of it.

Originally posted by JS357
Why is it important to tell people they are wrong on this matter? It seems to be important to those on both sides of it.

logic? reason? truth? shall i continue?

Originally posted by Agerg
Don't expect any consistency with my ''support' for your position Robbie! - I align my views with no theist on this debate...just trying to stir the pot on all sides equally ;]

you treacherous Judas, one minute you are defending my honour the next your betraying me! 😛 what a fast friend indeed!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I use extensivelly the new world translation of the Holy scriptures, it is in my opinion
a superlative translation to all others, and in case you are wondering, here is a list
not exhaustive of the references that were used in its translation, perhaps you can
cite any other translation which has utilised as extensive a list of resources and
r ...[text shortened]... t is not accepted by others is not proof in
itself,merely an indication of prejudice and bias.

it is an inferior translation, and no one in the JW organization is willing to raise their hand and say "Yes I did the work" They hide behind anonymity. No accredited school accepts your text as a reliable translation. Notice the glaring differences in the meaning. The YLT is just as it states: a literal translation, It may be harder to read, but the true verbage is intact. If you want to continue debate then pick a translation that everyone can agree on, like the NIV or NKJV YLT or even NLT

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
logic? reason? truth? shall i continue?

It looks like you have accidently typed "logic", "reason", and "truth"!...perhaps you meant to type "brainwashing", and "closed mindedness"?

🙂

Originally posted by Doward
it is an inferior translation, and no one in the JW organization is willing to raise their hand and say "Yes Ii did the work" They hide behind anonymity. No accredited school accepts your text as a reliable translation. Notice the glaring differences in the meaning. The YLT is just as it states: a literal translation, It may be harder to read, but the true ve ...[text shortened]... ebate then pick a translation that everyone can agree on, like the NIV or NKJV YLT or even NLT

what a pansy excuse, so they are anonymous, what does that prove about the actual
translation itself , nothing, its not even a comment about the translation itself therefore
you do what all the haters do, you attack the person or persons behind it, a stance
that is so fundamentally wrong and cowardly. I will continue to use the New World
translation of the Holy Scriptures as at least I know where it has come from and what
references were utilised in its translation, references which you cannot provide for any
of these alternative renderings of the ancient text. No references, no whinging!

Originally posted by Agerg
It looks like you have accidently typed "logic", "reason", and "truth"!...perhaps you meant to type "brainwashing", and "closed mindedness"?

🙂

fast friend!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what a pansy excuse, so they are anonymous, what does that prove about the actual
translation itself , nothing, its not even a comment about the translation itself therefore
you do what all the haters do, you attack the person or persons behind it, a stance
that is so fundamentally wrong and cowardly. I will continue to use the New World
tra ...[text shortened]... vide for any
of these alternative renderings of the ancient text. No references, no whinging!

Heres the NLT (the people and the work):


PENTATEUCH

Daniel I. Block, Senior Translator
The Southern BaptistTheological Seminary


Genesis

Allan Ross
Beeson Divinity School, Samford University


Gordon Wenham
University of Gloucester


Exodus

Robert Bergen
Hannibal-LaGrange College


Daniel I. Block
The Southern BaptistTheological Seminary

Eugene Carpenter
Bethel College, Mishawaka, Indiana

Leviticus

David Baker
Ashland Theological Seminary


Victor Hamilton
Asbury College

Kenneth Mathews
Beeson Divinity School, Samford University

Numbers

Dale A. Brueggemann
Assemblies of God, Division of Foreign Missions


R. K. Harrison (deceased)
Wycliffe College


Paul R. House
Wheaton College

Gerald L. Mattingly
Johnson Bible College

Deuteronomy

J. Gordon McConville
University of Gloucester

Eugene H. Merrill
Dallas Theological Seminary


John A. Thompson (deceased)
University of Melbourne


HISTORICAL BOOKS

Barry J. Beitzel, Senior Translator
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

Joshua, Judges

Carl E. Armerding
Schloss Mittersill Study Centre

Barry J. Beitzel
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

Lawson Stone
Asbury Theological Seminary



1 & 2 Samuel

Robert Gordon
Cambridge University

V. Philips Long
Regent College


J. Robert Vannoy
Biblical Theological Seminary

1 & 2 Kings

Bill T. Arnold
Asbury Theological Seminary


William H. Barnes
North Central University

Frederic W. Bush
Fuller Theological Seminary

1 & 2 Chronicles

Raymond B. Dillard (deceased)
Westminster Theological Seminary

David A. Dorsey
Evangelical School of Theology


Terry Eves
Erskine College

WISDOM BOOKS

Tremper Longman III, Senior Translator
Westmont College


Job

August Konkel
Providence Theological Seminary


Tremper Longman III
Westmont College


Al Wolters
Redeemer College

Psalms 1-75

Mark D. Futato
Reformed Theological Seminary


Douglas Green
Westminster Theological Seminary


Richard Pratt
Reformed Theological Seminary

Psalms 76-150

David M. Howard Jr.
Bethel Theological Seminary


Raymond C. Ortlund Jr.
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School


Willem VanGemeren
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

Proverbs

Ted Hildebrandt
Gordon College

Richard Schultz
Wheaton College

Raymond C. Van Leeuwen
Eastern College

Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs

Daniel C. Fredericks
Belhaven College


David Hubbard (deceased)
Fuller Theological Seminary

Tremper Longman III
Westmont College

PROPHETS

John N. Oswalt, Senior Translator
Wesley Biblical Seminary


Isaiah

John N. Oswalt
Wesley Biblical Seminary


Gary Smith
Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary

John Walton
Wheaton College

Jeremiah, Lamentations

G. Herbert Livingston
Asbury Theological Seminary


Elmer A. Martens
Mennonite Brethren Biblical Seminary


Ezekiel

Daniel I. Block
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

David H. Engelhard
Calvin Theological Seminary

David Thompson
Asbury Theological Seminary

Daniel, Haggai - Malachi

Joyce Baldwin Caine (deceased)
Trinity College, Bristol

Douglas Gropp
Catholic University of America

Roy Hayden
Oral Roberts School of Theology

Andrew Hill
Wheaton College

Tremper Longman III
Westmont College

Hosea - Zephaniah

Joseph Coleson
Nazarene Theological Seminary

Roy Hayden
Oral Roberts School of Theology

Andrew Hill
Wheaton College

Richard Patterson
Liberty University

GOSPELS AND ACTS

Grant R. Osborne, Senior Translator
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

Matthew

Craig Blomberg
Denver Seminary

Donald A.Hagner
Fuller Theological Seminary

David Turner
Grand Rapids Baptist Seminary

Mark

Robert Guelich (deceased)
Fuller Theological Seminary


George Guthrie
Union University

Grant R. Osborne
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

Luke

Darrell Bock
Dallas Theological Seminary

Scot McKnight
North Park University

Robert Stein
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary



John

Gary M. Burge
Wheaton College


Philip W. Comfort
Coastal Carolina University

Marianne Meye Thompson
Fuller Theological Seminary

Acts

D. A. Carson
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

William J. Larkin
Columbia International University

Roger Mohrlang
Whitworth College

LETTERS AND REVELATION

Norman R. Ericson, Senior Translator
Wheaton College

Romans, Galatians

Gerald Borchert
Northern Baptist Theological Seminary

Douglas J. Moo
Wheaton College

Thomas R. Schreiner
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

1 & 2 Corinthians

Joseph Alexanian
Trinity International University

Linda Belleville
North Park Theological Seminary

Douglas A. Oss
Central Bible College


Robert Sloan
Baylor University

Ephesians - Philemon

Harold W. Hoehner
Dallas Theological Seminary

Moises Silva
Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary

Klyne Snodgrass
North Park Theological Seminary

1-3 John, Revelation

Greg Beale
Wheaton College

Robert Mounce
Whitworth College

M. Robert Mulholland Jr.
Asbury Theological Seminary

SPECIAL REVIEWERS

F. F. Bruce (deceased)
University of Manchester

Kenneth N.Taylor (deceased)
Translator,The Living Bible

COORDINATING TEAM

Mark D. Taylor
Director and Chief Stylist

Ronald A. Beers
Executive Director and Stylist

Mark R. Norton
Managing Editor and O.T. Coordinating Editor

Philip W. Comfort
N.T. Coordinating Editor

Daniel W. Taylor
Bethel University, Senior Stylist

Originally posted by Agerg
[b]I'm looking for the WHY when it is not scriptural (except in the JW version of the Bible)
From Robbie's perspective you've answered the *why* when you mentioned it is scriptural in the JW version of the Bible ;][/b]

A reasonable assumption of why they call themselves Christian's I guess - and I really liked robbie agreeing with you that it was because their version of the Bible is different from the orthodox translations.

But here is the crux of the matter:
JW's claim that Jesus is their saviour and yet deny his deity. The JW god of the OT states in all versions/translations of the Bible what I posted above. My question them which they will not answer NUMERICALLY remains: How many Saviours do you have?

This is why they won't answer it:

- The answer can only be either 1 or 2.
- According to JW dogma Jesus and Jehovah are different and separate persons and Jesus is NOT Jehovah.

So if they answer 1 (Jehovah), the JW organisation ceases to be "Christian" and loses all authenticity in the Christian world.

If they answer 2 they will also lose authenticity in the "Christian" world, deny their own dogma and contradict Jehovah (see those scriptures above).

Either way they answer the JW sect is NOT Christian. And that's why they often obfuscate instead of answering the simplest of questions.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what a pansy excuse, so they are anonymous, what does that prove about the actual
translation itself , nothing, its not even a comment about the translation itself therefore
you do what all the haters do, you attack the person or persons behind it, a stance
that is so fundamentally wrong and cowardly. I will continue to use the New World
tra ...[text shortened]... vide for any
of these alternative renderings of the ancient text. No references, no whinging!

Here are endorsements for the NLT:

John Ortberg
Menlo Park Presbyterian
Menlo Park, California


“Studying and teaching from the New Living Translation second edition provides refreshing insights from a translation with high credibility.I recommend it to both Christ followers taking their first steps of faith and seasoned veterans on their spiritual journey.”


Gene Appel
Willow Creek Community Church
South Barrington, Illinois


“I loved the New Living Translation when it first came out because it made the Word of God more accessible. We made it our pew Bible at Grace Pointe. Now that it’s even better for study, I am anticipating an even greater impact on our congregation!”


K. John Bell
Grace Pointe Church
Naperville and Plainfield, Illinois


“Using the New Living Translation in sermon preparation helps to generate ‘aha’s! from the congregation. Where there may be obscurity, it can help turn the light on in the hearts and minds of listeners.”


Arthur Jackson
Judson Baptist Church
Oak Park, Illinois


“I recommend the NLT second edition because it is very clear and helpful. It has been a very useful tool in communicating Scriptural truths. I love the NLT!”


Rick Romano
East Hills Alliance Church
Kelso, Washington


“The second edition is fresh, dynamic and exciting to read. Whether a person is a new believer or a long-time follower, this translation will be a wonderful tool God’s Spirit will use to produce a harvest of kingdom fruit.”


Dr. Roger D. Haber
Central Baptist Church
Middleborough, Massachusetts


“I’m thrilled with the NLT second edition. . . .The attention to accuracy while being understandable makes the NLT the perfect choice for all churches called to grow people in Christ and reach people far from God.”


Brad Mitchell
Trinity Church
Lansing, Michigan


“I would say without question, that the accuracy of the New Living Translation and the scholarship that has gone into it has been impressive, and I can trust it.”


Walt Kallestad
Community Church of Joy
Glendale, Arizona


“For me, the greatest blessing of the NLT is how it opens up the meaning and impact of the Scriptures to people. I think it is a wonderful translation, and a gift to the Church.”


James Karsten
Grant Reformed Church
Grant, Michigan


“The NLT second edition communicates the truth of the Gospel in a clear, understandable way that can help bring spiritual seeking people across the line of faith.”


Bill Hybels
Willow Creek Community Church
South Barrington, Illinois


“When our church was looking to replace pew Bibles we wanted a translation that was both accurate and understandable. After much research, we chose the NLT. It combines accuracy and understandability like no other translation.”


Tony Siebels
First Church of God
Dewey, Oklahom

Originally posted by Doward
Heres the NLT (the people and the work):


PENTATEUCH

Daniel I. Block, Senior Translator
The Southern BaptistTheological Seminary


Genesis

Allan Ross
Beeson Divinity School, Samford University


Gordon Wenham
University of Gloucester


Exodus

Robert Bergen
Hannibal-LaGrange College


Daniel I. Block
The Sou ...[text shortened]... ip W. Comfort
N.T. Coordinating Editor

Daniel W. Taylor
Bethel University, Senior Stylist

all that is a list of people, not the actual texts that they utilised in their efforts at
translation, it says and proves nothing! Did they have their names emboldened in the
foreword like James the VI ?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
all that is a list of people, not the actual texts that they utilised in their efforts at
translation, it says and proves nothing! Did they have their names emboldened in the
foreword like James the VI ?

How many saviours do you have robbie?

Originally posted by Doward
Here are endorsements for the NLT:

John Ortberg
Menlo Park Presbyterian
Menlo Park, California


“Studying and teaching from the New Living Translation second edition provides refreshing insights from a translation with high credibility.I recommend it to both Christ followers taking their first steps of faith and seasoned veterans on their spiritual ...[text shortened]... tandability like no other translation.”


Tony Siebels
First Church of God
Dewey, Oklahom

yawn, no texts, no manuscripts, no codex, zilch! empty sand deviod of anything of
substance. 'we like our translation because its inane and insipid!', and substitutes
words like Lord to obscure the meaning and make it ambiguous!

Originally posted by divegeester
How many saviours do you have robbie?

9.816