24 Apr 11
Originally posted by RJHindsThe JW's are looking for a way to defend them having 2 saviours Jehovah and Jesus when:
Only those that have sinned need a savior. Jesus was without sin.
When he received the beatings and was crucified on the cross, He
was taking the punishment that each and everyone of us deserve
for sinning against God. In the flesh He was able to feel the emotions
and pain of that punishment. He demonstrated that it was so bad
that any man would cry ...[text shortened]... e the savior
of the whole world. Without Him there would be no savior, He is the
only savior.
Hosea 13:4
"But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Saviour except me.
It's error. But they cannot/dare not admit it - to do so will lead to them leaving the JW organisation of being booted from it.
24 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterhe offered up supplications with strong outcries, its nothing to do with a small S, nor of
I think your confusing your own point.
[b]There is only one God and 'Saviour' (capital S) God said it was himself in Hosea (and many other places in Bible). Period.
The fact that Jesus could have been saved (small S) from the cross is a red-herring. If the centurion had pull Jesus off of the cross and 'saved' him would that make him his saviour too?
You're appeal for atheists to help you in this matter is amusing though.[/b]
a cross, he reverently appealed to God to act on his behalf and to save him! that is he
appealed to God as his saviour, you cannot escape it with excuses that he was a man,
that its a red herring etc, its documented in scripture.
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterI believe it is written the Holy Bible somewhere that the Jews will
You may believe what you wish of course. But you will never take that gospel to the Jewish people.
God is one person, he will not give his glory to another. Look for God's character revealed and try not to get caught up in how he has physically revealed himself. There is mystery in the revelation yes, but God's character is easy to track through the Bible.
be blind for a cetain period of time before they say "blessed is He
that comes in the name of the Lord".
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHosea 13:4
he offered up supplications with strong outcries, its nothing to do with a small S, nor of
a cross, he reverently appealed to God to act on his behalf and to save him! that is he
appealed to God as his saviour, you cannot escape it with excuses that he was a man,
that its a red herring etc, its documented in scripture.
"But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Saviour except me.
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by RJHindshe is not appealing to him to save him on the basis of sin, the very same chapter of
Only those that have sinned need a savior. Jesus was without sin.
When he received the beatings and was crucified on the cross, He
was taking the punishment that each and everyone of us deserve
for sinning against God. In the flesh He was able to feel the emotions
and pain of that punishment. He demonstrated that it was so bad
that any man would cry ...[text shortened]... e the savior
of the whole world. Without Him there would be no savior, He is the
only savior.
Hebrews states that he was tested, without sin, he is appealing to God to save him, not
that term, save him, its quite important, to save him from death.
'offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of
death'
Christ appealed to God to act on his behalf as a saviour, you cannot escape the fact
with excuses, its clear and in scripture.
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by RJHindsYou may be correct, but Israel will never accept the trinity doctrine, multiple people in the Godhead, or multiple saviours. God is one.
I believe it is written the Holy Bible somewhere that the Jews will
be blind for a cetain period of time before they say "blessed is He
that comes in the name of the Lord".
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterno we are establishing how utterly absurd your claim is that Jesus and God are the
The JW's are looking for a way to defend them having 2 saviours Jehovah and Jesus when:
[b]Hosea 13:4
"But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Saviour except me.
It's error. But they cannot/dare not admit it - to do so will lead to them leaving the JW organisation of being booted from it.[/b]
same person, an assertion that finds no basis in scripture and is ludicrous when one
examines the ancient text, objectively with an open and unprejudiced mind.
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHosea 13:4
he is not appealing to him to save him on the basis of sin, the very same chapter of
Hebrews states that he was tested, without sin, he is appealing to God to save him, not
that term, save him, its quite important, to save him from death.
'offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of
death'
Christ ...[text shortened]... is behalf as a saviour, you cannot escape the fact
with excuses, its clear and in scripture.
"But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Saviour except me.
You can clutch to whatever the JW organisation tells youif you wish, but you will never deny this scripture (or the plethora of others)
24 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI cling to no organised religion or doctrine - I'm a free agent and can change my mind without fear of being booted out, as you would be if you changed your belief. It is you who are lacking objectivity.
no we are establishing how utterly absurd your claim is that Jesus and God are the
same person, an assertion that finds no basis in scripture and is ludicrous when one
examines the ancient text, objectively with an open and unprejudiced mind.
24 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeester"But I am Jesus your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Saviour except me.[/b]
[b]Hosea 13:4
"But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Saviour except me.
You can clutch to whatever the JW organisation tells youif you wish, but you will never deny this scripture (or the plethora of others)[/b]
The assertion that divegeester would have us believe? who thinks that the Israelites
were willing to accept this also, indeed, inserting Christs name demonstrates how
utterly ridiculous the claim is.
As it has been stated numerous times, God is the source of salvation, accomplished
through Jesus, therefore there is no discrepancy in the scripture, for unless I am
mistaken, the Christ was not made manifest to Israel for some time to come,
therefore how is it possible that this verse refers to Jesus, do tell.
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSorry I was unaware that JW's didn't accept that the spirit of Christ existed before his physical birth.
"But I am Jesus your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Saviour except me.
The assertion that divegeester would have us believe? who thinks that the Israelites
were willing to accept this also, indeed, inserting Christs name demonstrates how
utterly ridiculous the claim is.[/b]
24 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterOh i see, you are now havering about physical and spiritual manifestation, ok, as Christ
Sorry I was unaware that JW's didn't accept that the spirit of Christ existed before his physical birth.
had not been made manifest, how is it possible that this scripture is a reference to
Jesus, or were the Israelites to put faith in Jesus spirit? do tell.
24 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterMerely repeating the scripture accomplishes what?
[b]Hosea 13:4
"But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Saviour except me.[/b]
As it has been stated numerous times, God is the source of salvation, accomplished
through Jesus, therefore there is no discrepancy in the scripture, for unless I am
mistaken, the Christ was not made manifest to Israel for some time to come,
therefore how is it possible that this verse refers to Jesus, do tell.
24 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI don't see what you are getting at. The spirit of the LORD, spirit of Jesus, spirit of Christ, Holy Spirit are one and the same(in essence). I'm pretty sure you won't accept that, there it is.
Oh i see, you are now havering about physical and spiritual manifestation, ok, as Christ
had not been made manifest, how is it possible that this scripture is a reference to
Jesus, or were the Israelites to put faith in Jesus spirit? do tell.