23 Jan 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendOr option 3, Jesus really was just a nice guy and the stories were exagerated for political gain (not necessarily by Jesus).
I'm afraid that's not an option that the Lord left us.
Consider His claims. He claimed to be equal with God (John 10:30), to be able to forgive sin (Mark 2:5-12), that He would be resurrectied (Matthew 12:40), etc.
Now either these claims are true or they are not.
If they're true, the Jesus really is the Lord.
If they are not, then either Jesus di ...[text shortened]... ing a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
DF
23 Jan 06
1 edit
Originally posted by DragonFriendHe claimed to be equal with God (John 10:30),"
I'm afraid that's not an option that the Lord left us.
Consider His claims. He claimed to be equal with God (John 10:30), to be able to forgive sin (Mark 2:5-12), that He would be resurrectied (Matthew 12:40), etc.
Now either these claims are true or they are not.
If they're true, the Jesus really is the Lord.
If they are not, then either Jesu s being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
DF
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
Is a wave equal to the ocean, or is it one with the ocean?
23 Jan 06
Originally posted by NemesioExactly! Taking the Lord's words out of context.
I've heard that the Bible can be used to prove any point.
Now I believe it.
You've taken statements made in a certain context and applied them to fit
the contexts that you like. Sure, you can call it 'foreshadowing' but the original
contexts make sense and we could pull out dozens of similar statements to
show that God didn't know what He was talking about (when quoted out of
context).
Nemesio
23 Jan 06
2 edits
Originally posted by scottishinnzIf you guys want to truly get to the facts instead of posting gibberish about Jesus not be the Son of God, why don't you read a book that truly was written to disprove Jesus? Only, the man who wrote the book (A CASE FOR CHRIST by Lee Strobel) ended up coming away with the salvation of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Wake up World! Jesus is the Messiah, the anointed, the Savior of the World. When the Glorious Appearing comes about, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that He IS the Savior of the World. Search and you shall find Him! He promises this!
Or option 3, Jesus really was just a nice guy and the stories were exagerated for political gain (not necessarily by Jesus).
23 Jan 06
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressWhy don't you just say that no one in science today doubts that the New Testament is not 95% accurate or better. Better than any other ancient text we now read in our schools today. So, if Peter, Paul and everyone else in the Bible who says they saw Jesus ascend into heaven is telling a fable, then why hasn't today's psychiatrists studied this new concept of mass liars and how all of them, all 500 of them on Mt. Olivet, lied? Wouldn't that be a terrific scientific study of psychological maladies? The truth is they don't study it, because they do not believe they were telling a lie. Peter says even saw Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus. It's all in the Bible, and it's all true.
There are plenty of people here who doubt that the Bible is accurate, or that God told the authors what to write, but lets consider the evidence.
Below I’ve listed 20 places where the author accurately wrote about things that were not known or accepted in his day. Might this indicate a divine connection?
A = What the author wrote. B = The be ...[text shortened]... Snow and ice seen as valuable. Job 38:22
[b]B Snow and ice seen as a scourge and waste.[/b]
24 Jan 06
Originally posted by powershakerYou are nuts!
Why don't you just say that no one in science today doubts that the New Testament is not 95% accurate or better. Better than any other ancient text we now read in our schools today. So, if Peter, Paul and everyone else in the Bible who says they saw Jesus ascend into heaven is telling a fable, then why hasn't today's psychiatrists studied this new conc ...[text shortened]... ys even saw Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus. It's all in the Bible, and it's all true.
24 Jan 06
1 edit
i haven't been reading every single post so what i say may have been said before, or indeed they may not be at all relavant, however i shall say it anyway. because i can and because i want to, and because it's more fun that getting ready to go to work...
scottishinnz, you're asking for other accurate accounts of jesus's life. we'll, there are 4 accounts in the bible. that's probubly more than most hisotrical figures of that time have, and then there are the agnositc gospels also.
There is, however, no way i can see of convincing you that every single one of these accounts is accurate. many christians and historians are sceptical of the agnostic gospels (which i don't know enough about so i shan't mention again), while people shall obviously dismiss matthew, mark luke and john's gospels are poppy-cock due to the fact that they have some rather outrageous claims.
You also claim that the bible is not accurate due to the printing press etc, well i suppose all i can say to that is that it is God's word. if he doesn't want it to be changed accidentally (or, indeed, intentionally) it shan't be changed. simple as that. he's omnipotent. he can do whatever he likes! including not changing his word. or changing it. or whatever...
24 Jan 06
Originally posted by geniusTo be honest, I don't think god has much control over typo's. If he does, there goes any notion that people may or may not have free will!
i haven't been reading every single post so what i say may have been said before, or indeed they may not be at all relavant, however i shall say it anyway. because i can and because i want to, and because it's more fun that getting ready to go to work...
scottishinnz, you're asking for other accurate accounts of jesus's life. we'll, there are 4 accounts in ...[text shortened]... whatever he likes! including not changing his word. or changing it. or whatever...
All I'm saying really, I guess, is that if you have 4 stories of questionable origin that are similar, there is a fair chance that they all share the same progenitor. Likewise, my mate Daz tells me a joke - doesn't mean he made it up, he could have (probably was) been told it by someone else. These gospels you speak of, associated with people, all that means is that these people got caught up in the story telling process, and it was versions of the same story (written down long after the real events, quite whatever they were) that became associated with these guys. My suggestion is just as plausible as Jesus being the son of god (actually more likely, because we know typo's exist and we know that people exagerate stories, especially if it is to create an illusion of grandeur around a great leader), the possibilty that the gospels may actually be manufactured, based around versions of the same story or myth.
24 Jan 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzis putting a T where there should be a V really free will? you don't mean to make a mistake, do you? therefore, is it free will?
To be honest, I don't think god has much control over typo's. If he does, there goes any notion that people may or may not have free will!
24 Jan 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzYou might want to check into what it took for a writing to make the Biblical cannon. One of the criteria is that the writing had to be well circulated and accepted. This means that the stories in the writing were read by people who were actually there and could easily have dismissed them.
All I'm saying really, I guess, is that if you have 4 stories of questionable origin that are similar, there is a fair chance that they all share the same progenitor. Likewise, my mate Daz tells me a joke - doesn't mean he made it up, he could have (probably was) been told it by someone else. These gospels you speak of, associated with people, all tha ...[text shortened]... at the gospels may actually be manufactured, based around versions of the same story or myth.
And it's not surprising that 4 authors who all wrote about one man's life would produce similar stories. Assuming, of course, that they all told the truth.
DF
24 Jan 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageActually, I can prove the universe is intelligently designed within an astronomical probability and so the most reputable scientists today. I am saying Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings! He is the Messiah! He loves you and wants to save you. Open your heart! Listen to the Spirit of Immanuel! Repent and be Saved!
Let me guess--you're not the type to back up your grandiose assertions with anything so petty as facts.