Originally posted by FMFI just finished reading the exchange between sonship and GB, and it appears to me you are simply reiterating something sonship misunderstood about what GB was saying.
So you disagree with Grampy Bobby's assertion?
The confusion appears to center around the difference between the human spirit separated from God and the human spirit after it has been reactivated by the Holy Spirit... be that as it may, I did not see GB saying only Christians have a soul (or human spirit). He made no such assertion.
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeBut aren't Christians ~ in Grampy Bobby's view, and yours, for that matter ~ people who make "a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ"? If it is only then that people acquire the human spirit, in his clearly stated view, how can his words be interpreted as meaning anything other than that people other than Christians do not have human spirit? He specifically suggested that agnostics and atheists, for example, have "no human spirit".
I did not see GB saying only Christians have a soul (or human spirit). He made no such assertion.
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeOn the contrary, I don't think either sonship or I have misunderstood Grampy Bobby at all.
I just finished reading the exchange between sonship and GB, and it appears to me you are simply reiterating something sonship misunderstood about what GB was saying.
Here are the relevant bits of the exchange:
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
sonship, the preponderance of contributors to this spirituality forum are self professed agnostics or atheists. Salvation is the only information an unbeliever can understand in the Word of God: No frame of reference or human spirit.
Originally posted by sonship
I have looked at your phrase a couple of times to see what you mean by this "No frame of reference or human spirit." I am not sure what you have in mind here. But there is no salvation unless the human spirit is touched. There is no conviction of human conscience without the human spirit being touched. And there is no one who is born again unless the human spirit is born of God.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
sonship, "the human spirit" is acquired at the moment of salvation [a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ] by the regeneration work [spiritual birth and imputation of eternal life] of God the Holy Spirit; it enables the believer to now understand and utilize Bible doctrine to grow in grace [acquiring the Mind of Christ]. The truths revealed in God's Word are spiritually discerned by trichotomous human beings [body, soul and spirit]. What is "being touched" in context?
Originally posted by sonship
The human spirit is regenerated at the moment of salvation. Regenerated is different from created. [...text shortened...] My point here is that all men come into the world with a three-part being - spirit and soul and body. And to say we only have soul and body before being saved but have spirit and soul and body after we are saved, I am sure is not right.
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by FMFNo, it isn't. What I looked for was in the other thread you referenced. You picked up on something sonship said that misrepresented what GB was saying, and then you have the gall to ask me if I agree with GBs' assertion.
It's in the OP.
The only one here making this assertion is you... so where do you go from here? Are you going to try putting words in my mouth as well and try to start up something with me now?
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by FMFHe specifically suggested that agnostics and atheists, for example, have "no human spirit".
But aren't Christians ~ in Grampy Bobby's view, and yours, for that matter ~ people who make "a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ"? If it is only then that people acquire the human spirit, in his clearly stated view, how can his words be interpreted as meaning anything other than that people other than Christians do not have human spirit? He specifically suggested that agnostics and atheists, for example, have "no human spirit".
Bullocks.
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeI have quoted the discussion and Grampy Bobby's assertion verbatim.
No, it isn't. What I looked for was in the other thread you referenced. You picked up on something sonship said that misrepresented what GB was saying, and then you have the gall to ask me if I agree with GBs' assertion.
The only one here making this assertion is you... so where do you go from here? Are you going to try putting words in my mouth as well and try to start up something with me now?
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by FMFOh come on, so now I'm supposed to believe you've never heard of what it means to be spiritually dead? I suppose it's possible. Obama attended church nearly every week for what, 20 years or so... and he's not any smarter than you are.
On the contrary, I don't think either sonship or I have misunderstood Grampy Bobby at all.
Here are the relevant bits of the exchange:
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
sonship, the preponderance of contributors to this spirituality forum are self professed agnostics or atheists. Salvation is the only information an unbeliever can understand in the ...[text shortened]... before being saved but have spirit and soul and body after we are saved, I am sure is not right.
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeYou addressing the matter under discussion would be more interesting than this kind of stuff. Grampy Bobby clearly suggested that agnostics and atheists, for instance, have "no human spirit". He left no room for doubt that this is his view even when questioned by sonship.
Oh come on, so now I'm supposed to believe you've never heard of what it means to be spiritually dead? I suppose it's possible. Obama attended church nearly every week for what, 20 years or so... and he's not any smarter than you are.
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeOriginally posted by Grampy Bobby Thread 161838 (Page 7)
From another thread:
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"So the very reason I am glad that anyone begins to read the Bible is totally a matter of their human spirit being touched, even that the human spirit would be enlivened and regenerated..." -sonship
Originally posted by FMF
[b]Is the notion that human spirit is exclusive to C ...[text shortened]... sively widely-held Christians believe the human spirit is exclusive to widely-held Christian belief.
"So the very reason I am glad that anyone begins to read the Bible is totally a matter of their human spirit being touched, even that the human spirit would be enlivened and regenerated..." -sonship
sonship, "the human spirit" is acquired at the moment of salvation [a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ] by the regeneration work [spiritual birth and imputation of eternal life] of God the Holy Spirit; it enables the believer to now understand and utilize Bible doctrine to grow in grace [acquiring the Mind of Christ]. The truths revealed in God's Word are spiritually discerned by trichotomous human beings [body, soul and spirit]. What is "being touched" in context?"
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyExactly, as I have already explained.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby Thread 161838 (Page 7)
"So the very reason I am glad that anyone begins to read the Bible is totally a matter of their human spirit being touched, even that the human spirit would be enlivened and regenerated..." [b]-sonship
sonship, "the human spirit" is acquired [i]at the moment of salvati ...[text shortened]... erned by trichotomous human beings [body, soul and spirit]. What is "being touched" in context?"[/b]
So, do you have an answer to the thread's question?
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeWhen I was still a Christian, I would never have suggested that atheists and agnostics had no human spirit. You're still a Christian; would you ever suggest that atheists and agnostics had no human spirit?
Christians believe everyone has a soul (and/or human spirit) so your question is puzzling in light of your extensive (former) experience of having once been a Christian.
27 Dec 14
Originally posted by KazetNagorraThread 161838 (Page 8)
I wonder how GB would define "human spirit" in this context?
"In context these passages compare an unbeliever [human body and soul] with a believer [human body, soul and spirit]:
"1 Corinthians 2:14 NASB "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." There is a unique learning process that God gives every believer in order to understand truth, and we derive it from this passage. This has been called the grace learning spiral because it is based on grace. God gives this ability to every believer at the instant of salvation, it comes with the human spirit, and in the church age it is energized by the Holy Spirit. It is true for every believer, so your ability to learn the Word is not based upon your education, it is not based upon IQ, it is not based upon any other human factor, it is based upon this principle. This mechanic is true for every believer and we have to understand this. Even though you may find something difficult to understand today, that is okay. After you hear it ten or fifteen or twenty times it will become clear to you. This doesn’t mean that every doctrine is instantly clear in its totality to you as soon as you hear it. We can understand advanced doctrine but we have to build the basics first and build upon that line upon line, precept upon precept.
1 Corinthians 2:15 NASB “But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.” Some people get into a trap here because they think that the “all things” refers to all things in life, every issue faced in life, that no matter how difficult the circumstances they are going to be able to understand what God’s will is here. That is not what this is saying. Remember, going back to v. 9, that “all things” refers to what has been revealed in Scripture. So this verse says, “he who is spiritual,” i.e. he who is regenerate, “appraises all things”—appraises the Scripture. The word translated “appraise” is the Greek word ANAKRINO [a)nakrinw], and it means to examine a witness, to interrogate, or to determine the meaning of something. So we could translate that, “He who is spiritual,” i.e. the regenerate man instead of the unregenerate man, “is able to determine the meaning of Scripture.” That fits the context. Then it goes on to say, “yet he [in contrast] is appraised [understood, or the meaning of himself] is not understood by any man.” In other words, the unbeliever is not going to be able to understand the believer. The believer is always going to be an enigma at some level to the unbeliever."
http://www.divineviewpoint.com/sane/dbm/setup/1Corinth/1Cor015.htm