Originally posted by whodeyWell I am practical and realistic, and I'm not superstitious - as in, waiting for a supernatural being to intervene - if that's what you mean, yes.
There will be. The only difference is, you think that your world utopia can be brought through "democracy" to put things right and I believe the only way to achieve it is for God himself to come to earth and put things right.
I have seen great progress in the country where I live and I have seen ordinary people participating in putting things right, thanks to changes most certainly rooted in democracy, improving human rights, and rising indicators for health, education, justice etc.
If you want to play these momentous shifts in reality down for your own narrow ideological reasons by attaching a meaningless, cynical - and essentially misanthropic - label to it like your scoffing about "your world utopia" or if you are choosing to sit it all out and waiting instead for God "to come to earth", then jolly good for you.
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by whodeyAnd in the meantime, it's okay to steal from citizens and govern them like slaveholders?
There will be. The only difference is, you think that your world utopia can be brought through "democracy" to put things right and I believe the only way to achieve it is for God himself to come to earth and put things right.
It's never a waste to treat others as you wish to be treated. Too bad the right doesn't see it that way. We'll all be judged by the way we treat each other.
"Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." -- Matthew 25:40, KJV
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by FMFYou imply that by believing as we do, that we are not practical and unrealistic and superstitious. But by my reckoning, we are eminently practical and realistic concerning our future and we also know that there is nothing 'superstitious' about believing in God, despite your eagerness to deride us for our beliefs and to characterize us as 'primitive' and 'backward-thinking'. Again, whatever helps you sleep at night.
Well I am practical and realistic, and not superstitious - or waiting for a supernatural being to intervene - if that's what you mean, yes.
And I do wish you'd stop putting words in people's mouths and then asking them if that's what they mean. It usually isn't what they mean at all.
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by FMFAnd look who's calling whom "smug" and "jaundiced".
I think you often stumble because of the smug jaundice of your own ideology, regardless of what "wing" you might think it comes from or which "wing" you believe it pitches itself against.
Clearly there are challenges faced by humanity that require concerted and collective action. This has been true for as long as humans have existed.
If your theism has ro ...[text shortened]... than emulated.
I don't think pointing this out to you is either "left wing" or "right wing".
Originally posted by SuzianneI have never called anyone here "primitive" or "backward-thinking". Not once. So you appear to be putting words in my mouth, whilst appearing to oppose people doing it. When I ask someone 'is that what you mean?' after I describe how someone's idea has come across to me, to which they can answer yes or no, you're right or you're wrong, and then they can explain how my reiteration was wrong if necessary. It's just bog standard debate and discussion stuff, Suzianne. That's all.
[...] despite your eagerness to deride us for our beliefs and to characterize us as 'primitive' and 'backward-thinking'. [...] And I do wish you'd stop putting words in people's mouths and then asking them if that's what they mean. It usually isn't what they mean at all.
Originally posted by SuzianneDo you think whodey is "eminently practical and realistic" about the world?
You imply that by believing as we do, that we are not practical and unrealistic and superstitious. But by my reckoning, we are eminently practical and realistic concerning our future...
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by whodeywhich from past experience has shown clearly there to be zero in the way of aid from some deity or other. Witness the 200 million killed in secular and religious wars in the last 100 odd years. No sign of any deity so it is also clear 2 billion could be killed with zero help from a deity or 10 billion if and when human population gets that high.
There will be. The only difference is, you think that your world utopia can be brought through "democracy" to put things right and I believe the only way to achieve it is for God himself to come to earth and put things right.
We could all go extinct with nary a snort from any deity.
It just goes to show you the difference in how humankind views itself, as important on a cosmic scale V what really is happening, where the loss of literally hundreds of millions of us means zero to a god which should be a big hint as to the probability of expecting help from said deity or deities.
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by SuzianneThank you for understanding.
I sort of agree with this, and I've said so to googlefudge.
Feminism really does have bigger fish to fry than worrying about language.
When the glass ceiling still exists, I find it insulting when all people want to do about it is argue over what to call it. Action is still louder than words.
Mind you I did kinda feel pithy after i turned the tv on and saw what happened in florida 🙁
Somehow it's related
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by FMFSure, Christians just twiddle their thumbs waiting for the coming Messiah.
Well I am practical and realistic, and I'm not superstitious - as in, waiting for a supernatural being to intervene - if that's what you mean, yes.
I have seen great progress in the country where I live and I have seen ordinary people participating in putting things right, thanks to changes most certainly rooted in democracy, improving human rights, and risi ...[text shortened]... osing to sit it all out and waiting instead for God "to come to earth", then jolly good for you.
Did I say that is what we do? No. Did I say that we should not try to make the world a better place? No. What I said was, the world will never be "right" until the Messiah comes.
In fact, mankind would destroy himself if he did not come.
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by SuzianneWhat are you babbling about? When have I ever said it is OK to steal from people? When did I say slavery was OK? When did I say you should not treat people the way you wish to be treated, etc.?
And in the meantime, it's okay to steal from citizens and govern them like slaveholders?
It's never a waste to treat others as you wish to be treated. Too bad the right doesn't see it that way. We'll all be judged by the way we treat each other.
"Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." -- Matthew 25:40, KJV
13 Jun 16
Originally posted by whodeyWho are you ? A Bilderberger or something?
Sure, Christians just twiddle their thumbs waiting for the coming Messiah.
Did I say that is what we do? No. Did I say that we should not try to make the world a better place? No. What I said was, the world will never be "right" until the Messiah comes.
In fact, mankind would destroy himself if he did not come.
14 Jun 16
Originally posted by whodeySurely most Christians who are engaged - on the ground - in addressing the challenges faced by humanity also know that it requires concerted and collective action and that democracy plays its part in empowering people to be involved in that action? If so why are you so dismissive of it?
Sure, Christians just twiddle their thumbs waiting for the coming Messiah. Did I say that is what we do? No. Did I say that we should not try to make the world a better place? No. What I said was, the world will never be "right" until the Messiah comes.
Do you believe that Christians working to make the world a better place are also trying to create a "world utopia" or is it only the efforts of non-believers that you try to dismiss in this way?