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@sonship said
The eternal plan of God is that God would be SEEN in that God would be (if you will) WE-IZED. God would mass produce the mingling of humanity and divinity of the Firstborn Son of God.
Do other Christians recognize the above as God's eternal plan, as laid out in scripture? Or has sonship completely lost the plot?
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI have no idea what 'we-ized' means, but I do believe that God's life is to be in us and us in God. So there is what Jesus prayed about that we would be one as He and the Father are One. Which is a loving relationship, and only with the life of God in us could that ever be possible. A couple of examples:
@sonship said
The eternal plan of God is that God would be SEEN in that God would be (if you will) WE-IZED. God would mass produce the mingling of humanity and divinity of the Firstborn Son of God.
Do other Christians recognize the above as God's eternal plan, as laid out in scripture? Or has sonship completely lost the plot?
(John 17:11) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 15:4
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
1 John 2:14
I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
@kellyjay saidWhat is wrong with the wording used in the bible and why did you change it. You quoted verses that use the expression 'abide in', but your own words are 'God's life is to be in us and us in God'.
I have no idea what 'we-ized' means, but I do believe that God's life is to be in us and us in God. So there is what Jesus prayed about that we would be one as He and the Father are One. Which is a loving relationship, and only with the life of God in us could that ever be possible. A couple of examples:
(John 17:11) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the ...[text shortened]... hat the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The correct answer is that Gods plan is for people to abide in Him.
@rajk999 saidI quote a translation of a couple of them, actually; if you dislike that, I'm sorry. For a moment there, I thought you cared what was written and its context as if that was something for you to think important.
What is wrong with the wording used in the bible and why did you change it. You quoted verses that use the expression 'abide in', but your own words are 'God's life is to be in us and us in God'.
The correct answer is that Gods plan is for people to abide in Him.
@kellyjay saidStupid .... you said God's life is to be in us and us in God...
I quote a translation of a couple of them, actually; if you dislike that, I'm sorry. For a moment there, I thought you cared what was written and its context as if that was something for you to think important.
None of your bible quotes say that.
@rajk999 said(John 17:11) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Stupid .... you said God's life is to be in us and us in God...
None of your bible quotes say that.
John 15:4
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
1 John 2:14
I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Let's review; Paul writes that if we have not the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us, we are none of His. John writes that if the Word of God abides in us, we will overcome the wicked one. In the gospel of John, Jesus says that we must abide in Him, and Him in us, or we will not bear good fruit.
There are many more verses like these; I'm not cherry-picking; these line up with the rest of the scriptures. Your doctrine doesn't agree with Bible in this case?
@kellyjay said. you said God's life is to be in us and us in God...
(John 17:11) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 15:4
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
1 John 2:14
I have w ...[text shortened]... these line up with the rest of the scriptures. Your doctrine doesn't agree with Bible in this case?
The bible says no such thing.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidSomeone once said that humanity is God playing hide and seek with himself.
@sonship said
The eternal plan of God is that God would be SEEN in that God would be (if you will) WE-IZED. God would mass produce the mingling of humanity and divinity of the Firstborn Son of God.
Do other Christians recognize the above as God's eternal plan, as laid out in scripture? Or has sonship completely lost the plot?
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Kelly your contribution is much apprectiated.
Think about this a little. You know how Rajk999 loves to go to Matthew 25:31-46[/b] to talk about - "As you did it to one of the least of these my brothers you did it unto Me."
This is about the persecution of God's saints during the reign of the Antichrist in the last three and one half years of this age.
If you think about it, the Lord's brothers, down to the least of them represented the Lord Jesus Himself shows Jesus has been "We-ized" from Jesus.
In the same manner, a prototype of the "We-izement" of Christ in His Body was seen when Saul was persecuting the church. And Jesus stopped him in his tracks - "Saul, Saul, Why do you persecute . . . ME?"
He could have said "Why do you persecute my church?" But He didn't here.
He could have said "Why do you persecute my followers?" or
He could have said "Saul, Saul why do you persecute my disciples?"
He drove the point home to Saul for the rest of his life.
"Why do you persecute Me?"
To some extent Christ was already "We-ized" in His church.
"Because we are members of His Body." (Eph. 5:30)
Who do you think is fighting tooth and nail that Christians would not see that they are members of Christ's Body? Who do you think is terrorfied that this realization might dawn upon God's people ? And our battle is not against flesh and blood.
@rajk999 saidIf you do not have the Spirit of God in you, you do not belong to the Lord. Did you read all of the verses correct?
. you said God's life is to be in us and us in God...
The bible says no such thing.
John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
John 15:5
I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
There is a connection with the Lord that He has won for us, not one we can earn, abiding in Him as branches abide on the vine. The Spirit of God is either in you or not; it is a binary truth, yes, no, without the Lord in you, you are walking in the power of self, your flesh, and no one walking in the flesh can please God.
Those that walk with the Lord and shun His Spirit, well, it will not go well for them.
Were told to bear the fruit acceptable to God; it must be that which is due to Him, who is working in us to obey. He started a good work in all of His.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Our salvation is all due to God, and our sanctification is also due to God working in us; we are to be filled with His Spirit.
Ephesians 5:17-19
English Standard Version
Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,
Acts 13:52
And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.
Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
There are numerous examples of those who follow the Lord being filled with the Spirit, as well as a warning about not having the Lord in your life as well. The point of sending the Holy Spirit to us was because, as a man, Jesus was limited to His physical location, while the Spirit of God isn't.
Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
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There is an eternal purpose of God. This should be the first thing we recognize.
An eternal purpose would be a purpose within the heart of God even before He
created the univere (probably before He created heaven or any angels too).
I will spend a few posts just indicating that there IS this purpose in God from before ANYTHING existed - an eternal purpose.
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"According to the eternal purpose which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Eph. 3:11 Recovery Version )
See? In Christ Jesus - totally wrapped up in Him and involved in Him is "the eternal purpose" .
Some other English renderings of Eph. 3:11:
New Living Translation
This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord.
English Standard Version
This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Berean Literal Bible
according to the purpose of the ages,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
That which he had prepared from eternity . . .
Young's Literal Translation
according to a purpose of the ages, which He made in Christ Jesus . . .
New American Bible
This was according to the eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Contemporary English Version
God did this according to his eternal plan. And he was able to do what he had planned because of all Christ Jesus our Lord had done.
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See?
The New Testament says God had an eternal plan - and eternal purpose.
Now we see that before He laid the foundation of the earth (created the universe) God Almighty had in His eternal heart and eternal purpose.
"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before HIm in love, predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4,5)
First there existed a good pleasure God wanted to fulfill -the good pleasure of His will"
This preceded and was the REASON why He laid the foundation of the world - created the universe. - "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" .
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Logically speaking it appears that the creation of the univese was in view of God marking out a destiny for the humans He would creat. In the sphere of Christ Jesus the Second Person of the Trinity, they were TOO also to arrive at a destiny God prepared for them.
In His great love He would bring these people into a destiny to SHARE His holiness as sons (sonship). And withint them NO foriegn element as a blemish. This is like a pure transparent diamond with no spot of impurity to defile it.
God predetermined this destiny for His future sons. Then based upon this good pleasure He wanted to fulfill - the entire universe was brougt into being and God laid the foundation of the world.