15 Jun 13
Originally posted by galveston75So then the Bible contradicts itself right? Hebrews states that Jesus is above the angels so either the bible contridicts itself or there must be a misunderstanding. Agreed to that ?
1 Thessalonians 4:16
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the ((((( archangel ))))) and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
1 Thessalonians 4:16
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
16 For the Lord himself will descend from ...[text shortened]... to life first;
Not an angel you say? Ok see what you want or don't see what you want.
Manny
15 Jun 13
The Word Angel can also mean messenger I think it's partially where the word evangelical came from. The Context of the verse in Thessalonians it does not mean as RJ said that Jesus is the archangel or the trumpet it only means is coming will be announced by these things.....So read Hebrews and see what the father says concerning the son..........
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again,
“I will be a Father to Him
And He shall be a Son to Me”?
6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7 And of the angels He says,
“Who makes His angels winds,
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
So how are we to understand Hebrews 1:5-7 ?
Manny
15 Jun 13
Originally posted by RJHindsUh yes it does. Perhaps you should re read them all again and stop trying to defer the truth. It says what it says...
This only indicates what will announce Christ's coming. It does doe not mean he is an archangel or a trumpet of God or a shout. In Revelation, angel are often spoken of as crying out with a loud voice of sounding trumpets to announce things and it never refers to Christ Jesus doing it.
The Instructor
Try this again: "For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the ((((( archangel ))))).
15 Jun 13
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71No disgreement at all in the Bible. It is crystal clear Manny what these scriptures say and explain. You are the one with the issues of misunderstanding it.
So then the Bible contradicts itself right? Hebrews states that Jesus is above the angels so either the bible contridicts itself or there must be a misunderstanding. Agreed to that ?
Manny
None of the so called contraditions in the Bible that you seem to find are contradictions at all. It's the crazy trinity that messes it all up.
15 Jun 13
Originally posted by galveston75You and robbie are as two stubborn mules. May God help you.
Uh yes it does. Perhaps you should re read them all again and stop trying to defer the truth. It says what it says...
Try this again: "For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the ((((( archangel ))))).
The Instructor
15 Jun 13
Originally posted by galveston75I also do not believe there is a contradiction so where does that leave us?
No disgreement at all in the Bible. It is crystal clear Manny what these scriptures say and explain. You are the one with the issues of misunderstanding it.
None of the so called contraditions in the Bible that you seem to find are contradictions at all. It's the crazy trinity that messes it all up.
15 Jun 13
Originally posted by menace71Just exactly for what it says. I understand how scriptures like these are confusing to you and to trinitairians. It's because it can't work and never will.
The Word Angel can also mean messenger I think it's partially where the word evangelical came from. The Context of the verse in Thessalonians it does not mean as RJ said that Jesus is the archangel or the trumpet it only means is coming will be announced by these things.....So read Hebrews and see what the father says concerning the son..........
5 For ...[text shortened]...
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
So how are we to understand Hebrews 1:5-7 ?
Manny
If for one minute you could act like you never knew the trinity and just think for a bit that Jehovah is GOD ALMIGHTY, "one God" as the bible itself says and has always been one God.
His SON, his only begotten son, yes one who was created just like a fleshly father starts the life of a new child, Jesus's life was started by his FATHER. That's why the Bible uses those well know terms that we as humans understand and can relate too are used because it is such a relationship that those two have. If they were not in that relationship why were those terms used? If it were truly different then that, some other type of description would have been quoted to explain to us what their relationship was.
Again why is the holy spirit not called something like a son, or brother or some other term we would also understand? It is because it is not like the other two at all.
And Manny you are without knowing it expalining why the trinity isn't true by the very scriptuires you just posted.
Apply this very scripture to a human father and son and try to make the trinity factor work as in they are really the same being of same kind. It can't can it?
Originally posted by RJHindsWhy don't you just leave this thread. You are beyond negative and refuse to see what your own bible says. I know Manny and I feel if you weren't here stiring up this foolishness, he and I could have some decent conversations.
You and robbie are as two stubborn mules. May God help you.
The Instructor
16 Jun 13
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Who do you believs the following verses speak about?
Just exactly for what it says. I understand how scriptures like these are confusing to you and to trinitairians. It's because it can't work and never will.
If for one minute you could act like you never knew the trinity and just think for a bit that Jehovah is GOD ALMIGHTY, "one God" as the bible itself says and has always been one God.
His SON, his trinity factor work as in they are really the same being of same kind. It can't can it?
Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
(Revelation 19:11-19 NKJV)
16 Jun 13
Originally posted by RJHindsWe've discussed this before and I have no interest in doing it again.
Who do you believs the following verses speak about?
[b]Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a r ...[text shortened]... His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
(Revelation 19:11-19 NKJV)[/b]
16 Jun 13
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75I thought maybe you might have gotten amnesia again. This is talking about Christ in case you didn't know. "He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."
We've discussed this before and I have no interest in doing it again.
The Instructor
16 Jun 13
Originally posted by galveston75You know G-Man you've convinced me.......I no longer believe in the trinity and not only that Jesus was just another angel. God could have chose any angel to do the work of Christ. I guess we should just call the book of Hebrews a heretical book also.
Those scriptures I posted say HE IS.....So either you believe it or you don't. You are the one denying that clear fact, not me.
Manny
16 Jun 13
Originally posted by menace71View it as you want...
You know G-Man you've convinced me.......I no longer believe in the trinity and not only that Jesus was just another angel. God could have chose any angel to do the work of Christ. I guess we should just call the book of Hebrews a heretical book also.
Manny