27 Jul 08
Originally posted by scherzoWhat does that have to do with the current situation in which Islam looks primitive.
Islam is, I repeat, less conservative than Christianity. Islam was testing the world's boundaries, experimenting, making new advances, setting up an empire, advancing themselves, etc. while the Christians were still burning those who denied any part of the teachings of the Church at the stake.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by scherzoYou did not read my post properly. i simply used India as an example of how someone can visit a country and still not know anything about it.
First of all, given your very limited knowledge of the Arab world and the Muslim world, you very much need to understand Muslims and go to the Middle East. Egypt is relatively stable right now, and the fares are reasonable if you don't live in the US. British Airways goes direct to Cairo.
Second of all, India isn't Muslim, it's Hindu. Learn your history. ...[text shortened]... s fighting against.
Third of all, you've never been to India, so who are you to comment?
So you think that someone needs to go to Mars to know what the living conditions etc etc are like?
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by Rajk999That is what is called hypocricy and double standards. On one hand you claim that your religion doesn't support violence. And on the other hand you are ready to support violence by others if it will fulfill your religion.
Yes.
That is what I wanted to tell you from the begining.
I don't think a real GOD can't have a religion this is full with this amount of hypocricy.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by Rajk999Because it is the same Islam that created that big empire he is talking about. Because it is the same Islam that was the motive for those people to develop themselves in all fields in the time your Church was still investigating wheather or not the woman is a human being.
What does that have to do with the current situation in which Islam looks primitive.
You keep confusing Islam with the followers of Islam. Yes may be Muslims to day are living in the worst ara of their history, but that is not because they are following Islam, on the contrary, it is because they left Islam.
The only reason you attack Islam according to what you said in this thread, is simply because it contradict your fait. Because it says that all what you believe in is wrong. And the GOD you worship is not the true GOD that need to be worshiped.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by ahosyneyI condemn muslims who support the killing of adulterers and apostates. But I support the Jews defense of their homeland. How is that a double-standard?
That is what is called hypocricy and double standards. On one hand you claim that your religion doesn't support violence. And on the other hand you are ready to support violence by others if it will fulfill your religion.
That is what I wanted to tell you from the begining.
I don't think a real GOD can't have a religion this is full with this amount of hypocricy.
I condemn all violence that is pointless. Sometimes violence is necessary.
27 Jul 08
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderIt's reason for existence (as far as realpolitik is concerned) is to threaten the Arab states.
Israel is a neo-colonialist outpost of the West in Muslim territory. It's reason for existence (as far as realpolitik is concerned) is to threaten the Arab states.
Muslim interference with the West is minimal, while Western troops occupy large swatches of Muslim land and their politicans saber rattle to attack more.
Who's realpolitiks? Somehow I doubt Israel established itself in order to threaten Arabs. There was the whole Biblical history and Holocaust factoring in too.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by ahosyneyThose particular Christians remind me soooo much of Lovecraftian cultists preparing a mighty ritual to call down their God to destroy the world...it's amazing how nobody else sees this.
I asked a Christian friend about the state of Isreal and the Bible, and he said that the existance of this state is required to fulfill the Bible. In other words, the existance of the sate of Isreal, and what follows from wars and violence is to match the Christian theology about the second return of Jesus.
Do you have a different opinion?
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by ScriabinA totally random part of the Koran. I didn't even read it, I just copy-pasted it:
Open the Koran, which is perfect in its every syllable, and simply read it with the eyes of faith. You will see how little compassion need be wasted on those whom God himself is in the process of "mocking," "cursing," " shaming," "punishing," "scourging," "judging," "burning," "annihilating," "not forgiving," and "not reprieving."
61: The Ranks
61:1 All that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth glorifieth Allah, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
61:2 O ye who believe! Why say ye that which ye do not ?
61:3 It is most hateful in the sight of Allah that ye say that which ye do not.
61:4 Lo! Allah loveth them who battle for His cause in ranks, as if they were a solid structure.
61:5 And (remember) when Moses said unto his people: O my people! Why persecute ye me, when ye well know that I am Allah's messenger unto you ? So when they went astray Allah sent their hearts astray. And Allah guideth not the evil-living folk.
61:6 And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.
61:7 And who doeth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie against Allah when he is summoned unto Al-Islam ? And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
61:8 Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light however much the disbelievers are averse.
61:9 He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse.
61:10 O ye who believe! Shall I show you a commerce that will save you from a painful doom?
61:11 Ye should believe in Allah and His messenger, and should strive for the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That is better for you, if ye did but know.
61:12 He will forgive you your sins and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Gardens of Eden. That is the supreme triumph.
61:13 And (He will give you) another (blessing) which ye love: help from Allah and present victory. Give good tidings (O Muhammad) to believers.
61:14 O ye who believe! Be Allah's helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah ? They said: We are Allah's helpers. And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved. Then We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by AThousandYoungAllah likes his heavy infantry! 61:4
A totally random part of the Koran. I didn't even read it, I just copy-pasted it:
61: The Ranks
61:1 All that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth glorifieth Allah, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
61:2 O ye who believe! Why say ye that which ye do not ?
61:3 It is most hateful in the sight of Allah that ye say that which ye do ...[text shortened]... d. Then We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost.
Wait...is this really claiming that Muslims made Christians more powerful than Jews because they accepted Jesus? 61:14
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThe Jews would not have been allowed to create and maintain a state in Israel if it didn't fulfill a function believed necessary by the people who run the West. They don't care about Biblical history or the Holocaust. You are confusing the motivations of a minority of people in Palestine in the early 20th Century with the motivations of those who now support and maintain that State. That is naive in the extreme.
[b]It's reason for existence (as far as realpolitik is concerned) is to threaten the Arab states.
Who's realpolitiks? Somehow I doubt Israel established itself in order to threaten Arabs. There was the whole Biblical history and Holocaust factoring in too.[/b]
Do you think the US government has provided hundreds of billions of dollars in military and economic aid to Israel because of "Biblical history" or because the elites who run the US felt bad about the Holocaust? Get real.
27 Jul 08
5 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderIn part, yes. We have a strong Jewish informal lobby.
The Jews would not have been allowed to create and maintain a state in Israel if it didn't fulfill a function believed necessary by the people who run the West. They don't care about Biblical history or the Holocaust. You are confusing the motivations of a minority of people in Palestine in the early 20th Century with the motivations of those who now sup blical history" or because the elites who run the US felt bad about the Holocaust? Get real.
Others like Israel because they have a culture that is more like ours than the neighboring Muslim nations do.
Some also support Israel because it's necessary to summon Jesus to destroy the world in the End Times. Those'd be the people who elected Bush.
I think you're describing a very real factor, but it's not the only one.
By "realpolitik" you mean American realpolitik, right?
27 Jul 08
2 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderIf you do not think that the holocaust had anything to do with the formation of the Jewish state then I simply don't know what to say other than you are wrong.
The Jews would not have been allowed to create and maintain a state in Israel if it didn't fulfill a function believed necessary by the people who run the West. They don't care about Biblical history or the Holocaust. You are confusing the motivations of a minority of people in Palestine in the early 20th Century with the motivations of those who now sup blical history" or because the elites who run the US felt bad about the Holocaust? Get real.
There are one of two possibilities, either the US wanted to establish the Jewish state or they did not. If they wanted to establish the Jewish state as you say they were simlply provided a reason to do so via the holocaust. It would be comaparable to the US wanting to take out Saddam. All they needed was a reason and 911 gave it to them. Of course you could argue that it was a rather weak reason, however, the simple fact of the matter that the attack generated a great deal of fear and emotional turmoil that was simply capitalized upon. God help us if another 911 occurs because more will hit the fan!! Of course they never used 911 officially as the reason but to say it did not provide the push needed I think is simply wrong.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by whodey(Shrug) That the Holocaust and 9-11 provided convenient political cover for doing what the powerful wanted to do anyway in no way refutes my argument.
If you do not think that the holocaust had anything to do with the formation of the Jewish state then I simply don't know what to say other than you are wrong.
There are one of two possibilities, either the US wanted to establish the Jewish state or they did not. If they wanted to establish the Jewish state as you say they were simlply provided a reason t ...[text shortened]... officially as the reason but to say it did not provide the push needed I think is simply wrong.