"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope".
The pastor at the church I've been attending quotes this verse all the time, and uses it to prove to the congregation that God has plans for us......in the present.
I feel he's wrong, because God was speaking to a specific group of people in their immediate time frame, and it shouldn't be taken out of context to provide false hope for our current generation.
There is NO proof, in my opinion, that a believer in God should expect any sort of 'reward' for their belief. In fact, if you just watch the news on any given day you will see proof of the opposite, disaster after disaster.
When are people going to start preaching the truth, that you can believe in God, and have awful things happen to you and your loved ones?
Taking scripture out of context to promise something unreal is not how it should go.
God seems to stay out of human affairs most of the time, as I've said in different threads.
10 Oct 18
@chaney3 saidYou are under the impression that the plans are just for this life only? In this life we are promised that there will be tribulations, but God is faithful and promised us He would never leave us or forsake us. He also gives us a peace that transcends this world, it is a peace not like this world gives.
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope".
The pastor at the church I've been attending quotes this verse all the time, and uses it to prove to the congregation that God has plans for us......in the present.
I feel he's wrong, because God was speaking to a specific group of people ...[text shortened]... d go.
God seems to stay out of human affairs most of the time, as I've said in different threads.
Where your pastor is correct is God is for you, not against you! The Father sent Jesus to us because of His love for us. Jesus laid down His life for us, sending the Holy Spirit to live in us showing us all the things God wants for us. He did this while we were sinners undeserving of grace and mercy yet His love reaches out to us. He is so good and loving faithful to the end.
10 Oct 18
@chaney3 said"Disaster after disaster".
"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope".
The pastor at the church I've been attending quotes this verse all the time, and uses it to prove to the congregation that God has plans for us......in the present.
I feel he's wrong, because God was speaking to a specific group of people ...[text shortened]... d go.
God seems to stay out of human affairs most of the time, as I've said in different threads.
Of course! Why should Christians be immune to the same catastrophic events that plague the whole human race?
Thing is though, that no matter what happens us Christians we have a living hope.
This life is temporary, but I know where I'm going when it's over, and I know that whatever happens it is by God's design and meant to bring me closer to Him.
Don't be overly critical of the pastor. Even the best of them/us are prone to error. We're all in process. Perfection comes latter.
10 Oct 18
@secondson saidDid you read Jeremiah 29:11?
"Disaster after disaster".
Of course! Why should Christians be immune to the same catastrophic events that plague the whole human race?
Thing is though, that no matter what happens us Christians we have a living hope.
This life is temporary, but I know where I'm going when it's over, and I know that whatever happens it is by God's design and meant to bring me clos ...[text shortened]... pastor. Even the best of them/us are prone to error. We're all in process. Perfection comes latter.
God promised 'them' no disaster. I said nothing about Christians in my OP because the verse came from the Old Testament.
The pastor, and others, cherry pick "feel good" bible verses that simply don't fit real life.
10 Oct 18
@kellyjay saidIt sounds like you're saying that God cares about our eternal life, but not our earthly life so much.
You are under the impression that the plans are just for this life only? In this life we are promised that there will be tribulations, but God is faithful and promised us He would never leave us or forsake us. He also gives us a peace that transcends this world, it is a peace not like this world gives.
Where your pastor is correct is God is for you, not against you! The F ...[text shortened]... ing of grace and mercy yet His love reaches out to us. He is so good and loving faithful to the end.
If so, I think I can agree with that.
11 Oct 18
@chaney3 saidWhatever chaney.
Did you read Jeremiah 29:11?
God promised 'them' no disaster. I said nothing about Christians in my OP because the verse came from the Old Testament.
The pastor, and others, cherry pick "feel good" bible verses that simply don't fit real life.
God is immutable.
11 Oct 18
@chaney3 saidNo it does not say that at all, it says that god is saying he has plans for us and of those plans they are for our good not our disaster. It does not say god is promising them no disaster.
Did you read Jeremiah 29:11?
God promised 'them' no disaster. I said nothing about Christians in my OP because the verse came from the Old Testament.
The pastor, and others, cherry pick "feel good" bible verses that simply don't fit real life.
11 Oct 18
@chaney3 saidThere is no “proof” of anything, the walk is one of faith.
There is NO proof, in my opinion, that a believer in God should expect any sort of 'reward' for their belief.
However you are incorrect about reward:
After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, “Fear not, Abram. I am thy shield and thy exceeding great reward.”
Gen 15:1
11 Oct 18
@secondson saidWhy the attitude?
Whatever chaney.
God is immutable.
The bible is loaded with things that sound good, make you feel good, and promises......but when scrutinized, aren't true at all.
Maybe God loves us, but it sure as hell doesn't seem so given the amount of death, destruction and suffering that occurs on a daily basis.
I don't like when pastors try to sell something that isn't true.
11 Oct 18
@chaney3 saidOne does last longer than the other. I'd also point out if you read that scripture it
It sounds like you're saying that God cares about our eternal life, but not our earthly life so much.
If so, I think I can agree with that.
says this too, "...to give you a future and a hope" Our hope isn't complete here, we
are to walk as Jesus walked, and if you read Hebrews 12: 2 even Jesus as He
walked as one of us looked to the joy set before Him.
I do not say that God does not care about us in this life, by no means, but it still
boils down to faith and trust in Him. It can be easy to believe when all things go
our way, it is different and real when they are telling you reject God, or be thrown
into the lions den, or the firery furnace. It doesn't have to go that far for faith to
be tested, it becomes very real when we are in the midst of various trials. I can tell
you He doesn't leave us, He is a present help in times of trouble.
Hebrews 12: 1-2
1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
11 Oct 18
@divegeester saidGenesis 15:1 is my all time favorite verse in the Bible.
There is no “proof” of anything, the walk is one of faith.
However you are incorrect about reward:
After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, “Fear not, Abram. I am thy shield and thy exceeding great reward.”
Gen 15:1
I love this part:
"...I am thy shield and thy exceeding great reward.”
God is our exceeding great reward, which is true, it doesn't get better than that!
11 Oct 18
@kellyjay saidGod was NOT talking to us. Those verses refer to a specific group of Jewish exiles.
One does last longer than the other. I'd also point out if you read that scripture it
says this too, "...to give you a future and a hope" Our hope isn't complete here, we
are to walk as Jesus walked, and if you read Hebrews 12: 2 even Jesus as He
walked as one of us looked to the joy set before Him.
I do not say that God does not care about us in this life, by no means ...[text shortened]... re him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
But this pastor cherry picked that verse and tried to have us believe it refers to everyone, when it doesn't.
11 Oct 18
@divegeester saidHe wasn't talking to us.
No it does not say that at all, it says that god is saying he has plans for us and of those plans they are for our good not our disaster. It does not say god is promising them no disaster.
11 Oct 18
@chaney3 saidGod was talking to His people, and if you accept Him, you are too.
God was NOT talking to us. Those verses refer to a specific group of Jewish exiles.
But this pastor cherry picked that verse and tried to have us believe it refers to everyone, when it doesn't.
11 Oct 18
@chaney3 saidThat is not correct chaney3
He wasn't talking to us.
2 Timothy 3:16 (NIV)
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
All scripture is open to translation, interpretation, witness of the spirit and education. I politely suggest you stop looking at the bible as just a book but also as inspired text which is not time or date dependent.