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"So Jesus explained, 'I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself."
John 5:19
When we study carefully the life of Jesus it is a seamless oneness with the Father.
It is hard to tell who initiated what.
Sometimes it seems obvious that Jesus initiated nothing. At other times the unity is so seamless that it appears as Jesus initiating.
Take the quotation above the He could do NOTHING ... NOTHING apart from the Father.
The New Testament says both that God the Father raised Him from the dead and the He had the authority to rise from the dead.
"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
No one takes it away from Me, but I lay it down of Myself, I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. This commandment I received from My Father." (John 10:17,18)
God the Father raised Jesus (Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37).
Yet in John 10 above and elsewhere He said He would raise up the temple of His body in three days.
"Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:19)
Jehovah God is Jesus. Jesus is Jehovah God.
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"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone."
Mark 10:18
There is none good but Jehovah God Himself. And Jesus being Jehovah said that He was the GOOD Shepherd.
"I am the good Shepherd; the good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep."
Jesus was telling the young man in Mark 10:18 essence that - If you are willing to call me good then you must be willing to call me God.
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@sonship saidBut Jesus 'explained'. He said he could do nothing by himself."So Jesus explained, 'I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself."
John 5:19
When we study carefully the life of Jesus it is a seamless oneness with the Father.
It is hard to tell who initiated what.
Sometimes it seems obvious that Jesus initiated nothing. At other times the unity is so seamless that it appears as Jesus initiating.
Take ...[text shortened]... days I will raise it up." (John 2:19) [/b] [/quote]
Jehovah God is Jesus. Jesus is Jehovah God.
Why are you ignoring his explanation?
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@sonship saidI'm not sure a 'join the random dots' approach is the best way to understand scripture. Words often mean different things in a different context.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone."
Mark 10:18
There is none good but Jehovah God Himself. And Jesus being Jehovah said that He was the GOOD Shepherd.
"I am the good Shepherd; the good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep."
Jesus was telling the young man in Mar ...[text shortened]... - If you are willing to call me[b] good then you must be willing to call me God.
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But Jesus 'explained'. He said he could do nothing by himself.
Why are you ignoring his explanation?
I am not ignoring it. I am not only believing what Scripture says is written. I am believing "again" what Scripture says is written.
I do not believe something extra.
You do not believe enough.
He has the authority to lay down His life and the authority to take it up again. AND He can do nothing without His Father.
I want to believe the whole counsel of God.
I don't want to select only the part that I want it to say to me.
And the fool still says in his heart, that there is no God. (Psalm 14:1).
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Why are you ignoring his explanation?
Who is ignoring this ?
"Jesus said to him, I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6)
I don't ignore this word from the Lord Jesus.
You're ignoring the word by teaching:
1.) There is no Father
2.) There is therefore no need to come to such a One.
Like the rich young ruler who went away sorrowful at Jesus speaking because he considered that he could not give up anything, you go away also, but maybe not with sorrow but as a fool. Maybe you think your objective religious education is too precious to allow Jesus the Lord to rise above you as Lord.
"The fool says in his heart, There is no God."
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@sonship saidBeware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the fool still says in his heart, that there is no God. (Psalm 14:1).
Matthew 7:15
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Jesus claimed to be Jehovah. He said He had authority to forgive sins when the scribes and experts in the Law of Moses said only God had such authority.
"And Jesus, seeing their faith, said to the paralytic, Child, your sins are forgiven.
But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, Why is this man blaspheming! Who can forgive sins except One, God? (Mark 2:5-7)
Jesus knew their reasonings. He asked them which was easier, to heal the paralytic or to forgive his sins. Interestingly, Jesus didn't ask them which was harder but which was easier. That is because both are quite easy for God to do.
"Which is easier; to say to the paralytic, Your sins are forgiven, or to say, Rise and take up your mat and walk. But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth - He said to the paralytic, Rise, take up your mat and go to your house.
And he rose and immediately took up the mat and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, We have never seen anything like this!" (v. 9-12)
The Son of Man was Jehovah Who alone has authority to forgive people their sins. He also had the power to heal.
@sonship saidWhy are you again being so furtive over a simple question?
Jesus claimed to be Jehovah. He said He had authority to forgive sins when the scribes and experts in the Law of Moses said only God had such authority.
[quote] [b]"And Jesus, seeing their faith, said to the paralytic, Child, your sins are forgiven.
But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, Why is this man blaspheming! Who can forg ...[text shortened]... Man was Jehovah Who alone has authority to forgive people their sins. He also had the power to heal.
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@sonship said'The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.' (Hebrews 1:3).
The Son of Man was Jehovah Who alone has authority to forgive people their sins. He also had the power to heal.
Ponder that a while.
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Again...
So Jesus is not a distinct person from Jehovah then?
As in the trinity...
In Romans 8 Paul definitely draws a distinction between the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, Christ, the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead. Yet the titles he uses in an interchangeable way. All are said to be indwelling the believers. Yet, we believers in Jesus have never been able to discern any practical difference in this Living One within us.
"But you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet is anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you. " (Rom. 8:9-11)
Practically in a single breath (so to speak) Paul moves smoothly and seamlessly from one distinct title to the next in an interchangeable way.
[T]he Spirit of God is also the Spirit of Christ.
[T]he Spirit of Christ is immediately identified as Christ Himself.
Christ Himself is also the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead .
What common reality unites these titles? They are all said to be indwelling the believer.
The Spirit of God dwells in you, which is the Spirit of Christ dwelling in you, which is Christ dwelling in you, which is the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead dwelling in you.
Working our way backwards - "He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."
Which Spirit is of the One who raised Jesus from the dead indwelling, which is Christ indwelling, which is the Spirit of Christ indwelling, which is the Spirit of God indwelling.
This is the triune God.
@sonship saidNever mind all this copy/pasted countermeasures, here’s what you said in your OP
@divegeester
In Romans 8 Paul definitely draws a distinction between the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, Christ, the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead. Yet the titles he uses in an interchangeable way. All are said to be indwelling the be t of Christ[/b] indwelling, which is the Spirit of God indwelling.
“this thread offers some proofs that the New Testament teaching is the Jesus is Jehovah.”
If Jesus is actually Jehovah, then how can they be distinct persons?
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Never mind all this copy/pasted countermeasures, here’s what you said in your OP
I think you are only adverse to copy and pasting because you lightly esteem the actual words of the Bible.
“this thread offers some proofs that the New Testament teaching is the Jesus is Jehovah.”
That's what I have been about.
If Jesus is actually Jehovah, then how can they be distinct persons?
I don't know how.
But I do know that when I called on the name of Jesus, God came into my life.
And I do know that the Spirit of God in me is the Spirit of Christ
in me and that the Spirit of Christ in me is Christ in me and Christ in me is the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead in me.
I also know that Jesus is at the right hand of God interceding for the believers (Romans 8:34) on one hand but is also Christ indwelling them on the other (verse 9-11).
And I do know that Christ and His Father are a divine "We" who come to make an abode with the lovers of Christ.
"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
Romans 8:8-11 bears this out that this is exactly what has taken place. So they are distinct but not separate.
Now a Modalist might argue this way - Well, Jesus WAS the Father in the past before incarnation, but at the time He spoke was the Son. So God was not Father and Son concurrently. But when He says 'We will come to him' Jesus means what He was in the past and what He is now will come to make an abode.
I would not say such an understanding is wrong altogether. However, the Son is interceding TO the Father in the church age:
"It is Christ Jesus who died and, rather, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us." (Rom. 8:34)
So the We Who has come to make an abode with the Christian is the interceding Son AND the interceded TO Father. They exist at the same time, concurrently.
" ... we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous." (1 John 2:1b) .