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20 Oct 05
Originally posted by bbarrYou should fear God for the right reasons:
If God wants to be feared, then He is little more than a bully. If God wants to be respected, He should start acting in a manner deserving of respect.
Proverbs 16:6 - By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.
Does this action of God not deserve some respect?
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
20 Oct 05
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressOf course I don't know your God, but I know how He is described by God-mongers like dj2becker. I base my assessment of God on their descriptions. If those descriptions are inaccurate (e.g. if God doesn't really want people to fear Him) then you owe it to your God to clear up these misconceptions. I do not think views of the sort endorsed by folks like dj2becker are deserving of respect. They are, by and large, vile and degrading to human persons.
"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."
Since you don't know God, you're not qualified to describe him. If you don't like another's desciption of him, then your problem is with them, not God.
If your an atheist, what about just common decency? Just because you don't agree with another's belief does not mean you have to trample all over it.
20 Oct 05
Originally posted by dj2beckerUnlike you, I don't need the fear of eternal torment to motivate me to act morally. I have never been evil, and hence have not had to depart from evil. No, God's sacrificing His own innocent son does not deserve respect, but rather universal horror and outrage. Since God is omnipotent, He could have bestowed everlasting life with a snap of His fingers. This required no bloody martyr.
You should fear God for the right reasons:
Proverbs 16:6 - By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.
Does this action of God not deserve some respect?
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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20 Oct 05
Originally posted by bbarrYou have it the wrong way around. Once you know God's true character, you will automatically have fear and respect for him in the same sense that a loving son has for a loving father. It is a healthy type of fear that builds the relationship ever so strong.
Hey, if God wants to be feared, then what is there that needs to be known about his character? I hear Napolean also wanted to be feared...
20 Oct 05
1 edit
Originally posted by dj2beckerI'm not sure what your relationship with your father was like, but I never feared my father because I knew that he loved me and wanted me to be happy. Loving relationships don't acquire strength from fear, but are rather undermined by it.
You have it the wrong way around. Once you know God's true character, you will automatically have fear and respect for him in the same sense that a loving son has for a loving father. It is a healthy type of fear that builds the relationship ever so strong.
20 Oct 05
2 edits
Originally posted by bbarr1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear has torment. He that fearth is not made perfect in love."
Of course I don't know your God, but I know how He is described by God-mongers like dj2becker. I base my assessment of God on their descriptions. If those descriptions are inaccurate (e.g. if God doesn't really want people to fear Him) then you owe it to your God to clear up these misconceptions. I do not think views of the sort endorsed by folks like dj2becker are deserving of respect. They are, by and large, vile and degrading to human persons.
I don't believe that we are to fear God either. I believe God would rather have our love, and this can't happen if we fear him.
If you attack Jesus, then you attack everybody's God. I love Jesus also. I would appreciate it if you kept your attacks to the people involved.
Thanks, peace.
20 Oct 05
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressI take no issue with Jesus. Take care.
1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear has torment. He that fearth is not made perfect in love."
I don't believe we are to fear God either. I believe God would rather have our love, and this can't happen if we fear him.
If you attack Jesus than you attack everybody's God. I love Jesus also. I would appreciate it if you kept your attacks to the people involved.
Thanks, peace.
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20 Oct 05
Originally posted by bbarrUnlike you, I don't need the fear of eternal torment to motivate me to act morally.
Unlike you, I don't need the fear of eternal torment to motivate me to act morally. I have never been evil, and hence have not had to depart from evil. No, God's sacrificing His own innocent son does not deserve respect, but rather universal horror and outrage. Since God is omnipotent, He could have bestowed everlasting life with a snap of His fingers. This required no bloody martyr.
It is not the fear of eternal torture that motivates me to act morally. Out of my own strength it would be impossible. It is only by God's grace that I can do anything that is acceptable to Him.
I have never been evil, and hence have not had to depart from evil.
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God...
1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Christ came to save sinners like myself.
No, God's sacrificing His own innocent son does not deserve respect, but rather universal horror and outrage.
1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Philippians 2:8 - And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Hebrews 12:2 - Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Christ who had no sin had to carry all our sins on the cross so that we could be made pure.
Since God is omnipotent, He could have bestowed everlasting life with a snap of His fingers. This required no bloody martyr.
God is Holy. We cannot come into his presence with our sin. A price had to be payed to take away our sin so that we could be justified.
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20 Oct 05
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Originally posted by bbarrMaybe you don't quite get what I mean with the word "fear". I am not refering to "fear" in the sense of "being scared", but rather "reverance" and "respect". In other words, I would not dare to insult my father or make fun of Him because I love and respect him.
I'm not sure what your relationship with your father was like, but I never feared my father because I knew that he loved me and wanted me to be happy. Loving relationships don't acquire strength from fear, but are rather undermined by it.
20 Oct 05
Originally posted by dj2beckerWell, if by 'fear' you mean 'love and respect', then I suggest you cut out the middle-man and just use the terms 'love and respect'. I don't begrudge anybody the desire to be loved and respected, God included.
Maybe you don't quite get what I mean with the word "fear". I am refering to "fear" in the sense of "reverance" and "respect". In other words, I would not dare to insult my father or make fun of Him because I love and respect him.
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20 Oct 05
Originally posted by bbarrMy bad.
Well, if by 'fear' you mean 'love and respect', then I suggest you cut out the middle-man and just use the terms 'love and respect'. I don't begrudge anybody the desire to be loved and respected, God included.
I should have made it clear from the start.
"fear" : def 3. "Extreme reverence or awe"
www.dictionary.com
20 Oct 05
Originally posted by Maustrauserther·a·peu·tic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thr-pytk) also ther·a·peu·ti·cal (-t-kl)
Oh don't be pathetic. They know exactly what they do. They are having a good mock. Which I have to say is very therapeutic.
adj.
Having or exhibiting healing powers *
How is it therapeutic? What defect or malady are they suffering from?
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* http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=therapeutic