Originally posted by bbarrBbarr: " I base my assessment of God on their descriptions."
Of course I don't know your God, but I know how He is described by God-mongers like dj2becker. I base my assessment of God on their descriptions. If those descriptions are inaccurate (e.g. if God doesn't really want people to fear Him) then you owe it to your God to clear up these misconceptions. I do not think views of the sort endorsed by folks like dj2becker are deserving of respect. They are, by and large, vile and degrading to human persons.
You're kidding aren't you ? ..... or are you simply playing the same old games ?
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThat is precisely what I maintain.
That is precisely what I maintain.
I don't care what jokes you make. Joke away.
There are degrees of humourlessness.
A crap joke is a crap joke (who says all of shavixmir and howardgee's jokes are funny?).
"Take it from whom it comes" means recognising an ass as an ass and not getting your panties in a knot about what that ass might say ...[text shortened]... d hates fags" a joke or a statement?
I don't support censorship unless it is self-imposed.
Very well. At least you're not being hypocritical.
There are degrees of humourlessness.
Are there?
I find howard's joke not just offensive as a Christian, but at a very basic human level. Even if I didn't believe that Jesus was God, I would have no reason to question the fact that he had an excruciatingly painful death. The point of howard's joke is that he adds to the misery of a dying man. It is no less offensive to me than a joke about adding to the misery of a dying Jew at Auschwitz.
Is it possible that you cannot see why I should find it so offensive simply because it does not offend you?
Is "God hates fags" a joke or a statement?
What difference does it make? You don't support third-party censorship anyway.
Why dont people have respect for our God?
This is not directed at you, per se, Nicholaas, but your question here triggered it.
First. Let me say that Shavix’s remarks were deliberate sarcasm toward people who claim to have talked with Jesus, with an underlying question about the narrow confines (time, place, language) of the Christian “revelation” (anybody remember Jesus Christ Superstar?). In my entire history, as a Christian and as a non-Christian, I would never have found his remarks distasteful or offensive, whether I agreed with them or not.
Howardgee’s post was clearly intended to offend with graphic, vicious imagery. Howard has a total contempt for religion—anyone’s—and considers all religious folks to be pathetic fools; he has said as much. Is anyone surprised?
But—now for my own rant:
Why would anyone assume, a priori, that your religious or philosophical viewpoints ought to be respected by anyone? Do you want anyone who happens to disrespect your views, even to the point of contempt, to simply shut up—so that expressions that are respectful of your views are the only ones ever heard? To put lucifershammers’ test on the other foot: Are you going to treat with respect views that you find abhorrent and distasteful—anti-Semitic diatribes, statements of virulent racism, for example?
I have seen people on here who want respect for their religion, dash out nothing but contempt for other religions. “Oh, but, you see, we’re different….we have the Truth. Why can’t people respect that?” Same for the non-religious—and I don’t really give a fig for who did it first when, or who has the highest “body count.”
I have heard more than once—from all sides—the plaint, “How come you jump down our throats, but don’t say anything when someone who is in ‘your camp’ does the same thing?” I raised the same question myself to someone once; now I wish I hadn’t (even though I received a respectful hearing and gracious response). An interesting test would be if everyone took a vow never to take to task someone who attacks their view with contempt, but always to do so when someone with opposing views is so attacked. I don’t advocate that however; everyone has the right to defend themselves—consider it as a thought experiement however.
Sometimes, too, it is not the position but one’s perceived ineptness at presenting it that is the subject of a contemptuous response. I’ve been on the receiving end of that, too—sometimes it was exactly what I needed.
I’m just a bit weary of all the cries of “victim, victim!” If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen (no judgment on anyone, here; I’ve had to get out of the kitchen myself a couple times).
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Originally posted by vistesdI sure am glad your back Vistesd. You have a way of "restoring law and order". But in a respectful and harmless way. I admire that about you...
[b]Why dont people have respect for our God?
This is not directed at you, per se, Nicholaas, but your question here triggered it.
First. Let me say that Shavix’s remarks were deliberate sarcasm toward people who claim to have talked with Jesus, with an underlying question about the narrow confines (time, place, language) of the Christian “revelatio ...[text shortened]... itchen (no judgment on anyone, here; I’ve had to get out of the kitchen myself a couple times).[/b]
🙂
Originally posted by bbarrYour avatar is a concise, picturesque and very much to the point summary of your ethical stances, Bbarr. Very well chosen indeed ........
We've gone through this all already. I think your ethical theory gets it wrong when it comes to abortion, birth control, homosexual activity, and euthanasia. We don't need to rehash this now, but we can if you want.
Originally posted by vistesdWhy would anyone assume, a priori, that your religious or philosophical viewpoints ought to be respected by anyone? Do you want anyone who happens to disrespect your views, even to the point of contempt, to simply shut up—so that expressions that are respectful of your views are the only ones ever heard? To put lucifershammers’ test on the other foot: Are you going to treat with respect views that you find abhorrent and distasteful—anti-Semitic diatribes, statements of virulent racism, for example?
[b]Why dont people have respect for our God?
This is not directed at you, per se, Nicholaas, but your question here triggered it.
First. Let me say that Shavix’s remarks were deliberate sarcasm toward people who claim to have talked with Jesus, with an underlying question about the narrow confines (time, place, language) of the Christian “revelatio ...[text shortened]... itchen (no judgment on anyone, here; I’ve had to get out of the kitchen myself a couple times).[/b]
First, let's be clear about the ways in which we use the term 'respect'
1. Respect for a viewpoint
2. Respect for a person
3. Treating a viewpoint with respect
4. Treating a person with respect
(1) and (2) are internal states; (3) and (4) are patterns of external behaviour.
Respecting a viewpoint involves, at the minimum, a willingness to consider or appreciate it. Respecting a person involves holding that person with some esteem.
Treating a viewpoint or a person with respect involves maintaining a minimum standard of decorum when engaging with that viewpoint or person (or, if one cannot maintain such a standard, to desist from engaging). It certainly does not involve contemptuous and offensive behaviour.
I don't respect all the persons I come across on this site; and I certainly don't respect all the viewpoints I come across. Nevertheless, if I do decide to engage with such persons or viewpoints, I try to maintain a minimum level of politeness and decency. And I certainly try not to go out of my way to offend him/her on a personal level.
So, to answer your questions:
a. I don't expect anyone to respect my viewpoints or me - but I certainly expect not to find material that is intentionally offensive. Why shouldn't I expect that? It's in the TOS - every user on this site has committed himself/herself to adhering to those terms.
b. I don't want people who disrespect my views to "simply shut up" - but I want to see a minimum level of decency in my interactions with them.
c. If I come across views that I find abhorrent and distasteful then I will engage with those views exactly as I have in this thread.
I’m just a bit weary of all the cries of “victim, victim!” If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen
I'm sorry, but I have every right to be in the communal "kitchen" as anyone else. And if the heat is because someone has set an illegal "fire" in the kitchen, then I do not consider my leaving the kitchen the right thing to do.
Originally posted by lucifershammerThen you're missing out on at least half of the fun of the Spirituality forum! You Catholics need to learn to live a little.
I try to maintain a minimum level of politeness and decency. And I certainly try not to go out of my way to offend him/her on a personal level.