Jesus' Teaching After Resurrection

Originally posted by sonship
Is the Father called God ? Yes or No?
Is the Son called God ? Yes of No?
Is the Holy Spirit called God ? Yes or No?

If you affirm as you should that all three are called God in the Bible then like it or not, the teaching of God as a trinity is not in error.

Now let's confirm. Of course many places say that the Father is God. Just one wil ...[text shortened]... cal expression to accurately express what the Bible teaches.

Divegeester is the one in error.

" But of the Son, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, ...' " (Hebrews 1:8a)

Actually the correct translation is god, not God. Furthermore, the next verse continues on...

Heb 1:9
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."
NKJV

How again does God have a "God?"

" But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to deceive the Holy Spirit ... You have not lied to men but to God." (See Acts 5:3,4)
Yes, Holy Spirit with capitol H and S refers to God. When I say Holy Spirit, it refers to God.
When I say holy spirit, it refers to God's gift in us.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

" But of the Son, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, ...' " (Hebrews 1:8a)

Actually the correct translation is god, not God. Furthermore, the next verse continues on...

Neither you nor I read NT Greek. So on capitalizations and like issues we have to trust those translators who have the translation skill.

Having said that, I do not trust anyone saying the "God" in both usages does not refer to God in every sense. Your backround in "The Way International" of denying the incarnation of God as the man Jesus Christ, I totally reject.

1.) It would not be the only place in the Bible indicating that the Son is God incarnate.

2.) The quotation is of Psalm 45:6,7.

There is nothing in verse 6 which should indicate that the Psalmist under divine inspiration, is speaking of anyone except Jehovah God.

Psalm 45:6 - "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom."

Hebrews 1:8 - "But of the Son, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. ' "

There is absolutely no reason for us to assume either quotation is not speaking about the one unique God of the whole Bible.

3.) Looking closer at Psalm 45 it is evident that under divine inspiration, the One who has the throne and is a righteous King and is addressed as God, is one of the "sons of men".

"Psalm 45:2 - "You are fairer than the sons of men; Grace is poured upon Your lips; Therefore God has blessed you forever.

v.3 - Gird Your sword upon Your thigh, O mighty One.

v.7 - You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your companions."

This God-man has companions because He is incarnated as a man like us.
And the writer of Hebrews, also under divine inspiration realizes that the Psalm is speaking of the Son of God -

Hebrews 1: 8a - "But of the Son, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ...' "

The passage is about the millennial kingdom when the Son of God will reign on the earth with the scepter of righteousness. And because He is incarnated as a man He has companions - human beings. But over them all He is especially joyful and anointed by the Father for He is the Savior, the Head, the Son of God, and the Messianic King.

Not only so. But it is impossible to misunderstand the intent of the writer of Hebrews that he is speaking of Jehovah God. For in the next verses 10 through 12 this One of whom He speaks is the Creator of the heavens and the earth as God Almighty.

Hebrews 1:11-12 is the writers inspired quotation of Psalm 102:25 which starts as an address to Jehovah.

Psalm 102:1 - "O Jehovah, hear my prayer; And let my cry come unto You."

Psalm 102:25 - "Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You endure; Indeed all of them will wear out like a garment; Like clothing You will change them, And they will be changed.

But You are the same, And Your years are without end."

Now we see how the writer of hebrews quotes and connects this passage with the Son of whom he has just written about as God.

Heb. 1:8a "But of the Son, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ...

verse 9b - " ... therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy above Your partners:;

v.10 - "And, You [the Son] in the beginning, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of Your hands.

They will perish, but You [the Son, the One addressed as "O God"] remain perpetually; and they all will become old like a garment, And like a mantle You [the Son, the God] will roll them up; like a garment they will also be changed; but You are the same, and Your years will not fail."

If it confounds you that the passage does mysteriously speak of God's God - or "Thererfore God, Your God" we should remember that Jesus changed the Pharisees to explain how David also could call the Lord his own Lord is the Lord Messiah is to be the son of David.

" Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus questioned them,

Saying, What do you think concerning the Christ? Whose son is He? They answered to Him, David's

He said to them, How then does David in spirit call Him Lord, saying, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand until I put Your enemies underneath Your feet?

If then David calls Him Lord, how is He his son?

And no one was able to answer Him a word, not did anyone from that day dare to question Him anymore." (Matt. 22:41-46)

So if you press me to explain how God can have God, I would ask you too, How can David's son be David's Lord ?

God is incarnated in Jesus Christ and the triune God is a reality.

Originally posted by sonship

[b]" But of the Son, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, ...' " (Hebrews 1:8a)

Actually the correct translation is god, not God. Furthermore, the next verse continues on...

Neither you nor I read NT Greek. So on capitalizations and like issues we have to trust those translators who have the translation skill.

Having said ...[text shortened]... d's son be David's Lord ?

God is incarnated in Jesus Christ and the triune God is a reality.[/b]

I was with that group for a very short time over 40 years ago, and reject most of what they taught.
I think you bring this up, merely to connect me to a cult, but I do not have to know Greek to know Jesus is the son of God.
I have a lot more I can say, but I do not want to hijack your OP any more than it already has.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

" But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to deceive the Holy Spirit ... You have not lied to men but to God." (See Acts 5:3,4)

Yes, Holy Spirit with capitol H and S refers to God. When I say Holy Spirit, it refers to God.
When I say holy spirit, it refers to God's gift in us.

The Holy Spirit in Acts 5:3,4 is BOTH the Gift and a Person. You do not lie to a mere force. You do not deceive electricity or lie to electricity. To a person you lie. To a person you attempt deceiving.

The Holy Spirit is an unusual Person, and one Who is God and whom Ananias and his wife attempted to deceive. Bad idea. Foolish idea.

Now the Holy Spirit in Acts 16:6,7 is used interchangeably with the Spirit of Jesus. So the Holy Spirit is gift of a Person - Jesus the Person.

"And they passed through the region of Phyrygia nd Galatia, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia. (v.6)

And when they had come to Mysia, they tried to go into Bithynia, yet the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them." (v.7)

The "Holy Spirit" was also "the Spirit of Jesus". And "the Spirit of Jesus" was "the Holy Spirit".

So you cannot fight against the revelation of the Triune God by attempting to demote the Holy Spirit to an impersonal force in Acts 5 or chapter 16.

I would not argue that in some infrequent instances the New Testament may speak of the human spirit as being holy. But that is because the Christian's human spirit is indwelt BY the Person of the Holy Spirit.

'He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)

"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Tim. 4:22)

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit" ( Phil. 4:23)

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen" (Gal. 6:18)

Sure, the human spirit is mentioned. And the regenerated human spirit is surely a gift. And the Holy Spirit is surely a gift. God is the intended meaning in Acts 5:3,4.

Ananias foolishly thought he was lying to the apostles and the saints in the church there to give a good false impression. He learned that the Person indwelling them all, including himself, was God the Divine Person and was the Holy Spirit, the Third of the Divine Trinity.

"You have not lied to men [nor to a mere power as a gift] but to God." (Acts 5:4)

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I was with that group for a very short time over 40 years ago, and reject most of what they taught.
I think you bring this up, merely to connect me to a cult, but I do not have to know Greek to know Jesus is the son of God.
I have a lot more I can say, but I do not want to hijack your OP any more than it already has.

I was with that group for a very short time over 40 years ago, and reject most of what they taught.

Yes. I know. But you retained Victor Paul Wierwille's view that you lose Christianity when you make Jesus God. I have heard some of his tapes.

Either his teaching got stuck in your head or you went in with it and still cling to it.
Either way, you should take the Word of God as it reveals the incarnation.

I think you bring this up, merely to connect me to a cult, but I do not have to know Greek to know Jesus is the son of God.

Excuse me, I did not mention the word cult. I can refer to a group's wrong teaching without having to use the word cult.

Can you quote me where I used the word "cult" ? I simply referred to "The Way International." That's all. I don't care about the label. I care about the proper presentation of the Triune God. And you won't get that with "The Way International".

Let's not miss the point ? Some of the people I knew in The Way International I thought were dedicated people who sought to love God very much. Weirville's teaching was not good on the incarnation of Christ. He wanted to view Jesus as a man. And I heartily agree that we SHOULD ... absolutely,. But Jesus is GOD-MAN.

I have a lot more I can say, but I do not want to hijack your OP any more than it already has.

Originally posted by sonship

I was with that group for a very short time over 40 years ago, and reject most of what they taught.

Yes. I know. But you retained Victor Paul Wierwille's view that you lose Christianity when you make Jesus God. I have heard some of his tapes.

Either his teaching got stuck in your head or you went in with it and still cling to it.
E ...[text shortened]... a lot more I can say, but I do not want to hijack your OP any more than it already has. [/quote]

I have retained nothing from there. What I believe about God and the Lord Jesus, I have gleaned from my own study, Grace Min. USA, Spirit & Truth Fellowship and a couple local groups.
I do not need to be an expert in Greek. I have a Greek English Lexicon along with many concordances and can look this stuff up myself.
I also think bias crept into the bible hundreds of years ago. I would not put my faith in some "translators" as you do. I think God expects His children to dig into the word deeper and deeper. Learn all we can about Him and Jesus Christ.
This takes learning the culture at the time of the writings, the bias, etc.
As I have stated in the past, I serve the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
I also reject the belief that if one does not accept the Trinity, they are not born again.
That is a lie from the pit of hell. And, no, I am not accusing you of saying that.

Originally posted by yoctobyte
I answered your question a few posts up with ...

"To answer your question, I do believe the disciples followed Jesus commands, of course. But I am not going down the road of Jesus only doctrine and UPC teaching. God is much larger than our understanding and to limit who he is in such ways is putting him in a box."

I will say it again, I do bel ...[text shortened]... t the bible it speaks of the 'Father" and the "Son" and the "Holy Spirit". Do we agree on this?

No we don't agree.
You used Matt 28 as evidence that "even Jesus" commanded his disciples to use the FS&HG formula, but I've shown you that in fact they didn't follow that wordage in any way you suggest supports your premise. I then also explained why they didn't.

You just keep asserting that they did follow his command to use FS&HG but they didn't use the words FS&HG! I find it bizarre that you can write that and still actually believe it supports your claim.

How can it?

Originally posted by divegeester
No we don't agree.
You used Matt 28 as evidence that "even Jesus" commanded his disciples to use the FS&HG formula, but I've shown you that in fact they didn't follow that wordage in any way you suggest supports your premise. I then also explained why they didn't.

You just keep asserting that they did follow his command to use FS&HG but they didn't ...[text shortened]... izarre that you can write that and still actually believe it supports your claim.

How can it?

You used Matt 28 as evidence that "even Jesus" commanded his disciples to use the FS&HG formula, but I've shown you that in fact they didn't follow that wordage in any way you suggest supports your premise. I then also explained why they didn't.

I used Matt 28 to show that there is a godhead that consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirt and that Jesus himself spoke of it not a formula for baptism, our conversation is about the existence of the godhead or trinity, not proper wording for baptism.

You just keep asserting that they did follow his command to use FS&HG but they didn't use the words FS&HG! I find it bizarre that you can write that and still actually believe it supports your claim.

I am not asserting anything, I answered your question twice, that is all... and that was about 'the words' that the disciples used when baptizing. But we are talking about whether there is a godhead, not baptism... 2 different things.

I find it bizarre that you can write that and still actually believe it supports your claim.

What I find bizarre is that for a guy that holds people to every jot or tittle of what they say, you are having difficulty following along. My claim is there exist the trinity. The problem I think is we tend to think too hard about things sometimes and lose site of what is being discussed and make it about something else.

My intent with Matt 28 was to show there is a Father, Son and Holy Spirit and that Jesus spoke of it. Can we at least agree on that point?

Originally posted by checkbaiter

I have retained nothing from there. What I believe about God and the Lord Jesus, I have gleaned from my own study, Grace Min. USA, Spirit & Truth Fellowship and a couple local groups.

Is there something you learned from these groups that influenced you to believe that Hebrews 1:8 should not captilze "God" in the English translation -

"But of the Son, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever ..' ." ?

Is there another god or God whose throne is "forever and ever" besides the God revealed in Scripture ?

If so then we have Yahweh as God whose throne is for eternity and we have some other small letter "god" whose throne is also "forever and ever". That means polytheism.

Are the Grace Min. USA or Spirit & Truth Fellowship polytheists ?
Or did you derive these thoughts from some other study or private consideration?

I do not need to be an expert in Greek. I have a Greek English Lexicon along with many concordances and can look this stuff up myself.

I quite agree. What led you to think there is another small letter "god" whose throne is for eternity though ?

In the closing scenes of the book of Revelation we see "the throne [singular] of God and of the Lamb."

" And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb .." (Rev. 22:1)

The Lamb is the Redeemer Who died. And God is IN the Lamb, the Redeemer - God-man who died for our redemption. There is the ONE singular THRONE of God and the Lamb. And it is surely "forever and ever" (Heb. 1:8).

We know that God is IN the Lamb absolutely. That is because the Lamb is the lamp. And God is the light shining out of the lamp.

"And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon that they should shine in it, for the glory of God illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb." (Rev. 21:23)

Who is the light making unnecessary the light of the sun or moon or any natural light?
It is God.
And what is the receptacle or lamp which embodies the light ?
It is the Lamb, the Redeemer, the God-man Jesus is the Lamb of God taking away the sins of the world (John 1:29)

"The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world." (John 1:29)

Doesn't Revelation show the God-man Jesus sitting upon the singular "throne of God and of the Lamb" ? Isn't your God the Redeemer Jesus, the Son of Man ?

I also think bias crept into the bible hundreds of years ago. I would not put my faith in some "translators" as you do. I think God expects His children to dig into the word deeper and deeper. Learn all we can about Him and Jesus Christ.

I am certainly as you are, researching and checking.

Maybe you will tell me how you got to consider there is an additional small letter "god" whose upon an eternal throne who is not the God who inhabits eternity.

"For thus says the high and exalted One, Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy." (Isaiah 57:15a)

Doesn't the Son of the Most High reign upon the divine throne forever ?

"He [the child of Mary] will be great and will be called Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of David His father,

And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:32,33)

The man mingled with God reigns upon the throne of God and of the Lamb forever.
Where did you get the concept that a small letter "god" also has an eternal throne besides God?

This takes learning the culture at the time of the writings, the bias, etc.
As I have stated in the past, I serve the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

I know this is off the topic of the thread. But it is important for me to see why you don't think the Son is addressed as "O God" as if the Son is ANOTHER small letter "god".

Originally posted by divegeester

"Hear oh Israel, [that means 'listen sonship'], the Lord your God is ONE".

I'm afraid "trinity" doesn't even get close.

I will try to connect this reply to the Thread more - Jesus' Teaching After Resurrection.

After resurrection Jesus reveals Himself to John on the Island of Patmos.

" And when I [John] saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead; and He placed His right hand on me, saying, Do not fear; I am the First and the Last and the living One; and I became dead, and behold I am living forever and ever.

And I have the keys to death and of Hades." (Rev. 1:17,18)

The MAN (for He appeared as "One like the Son of Man" (v.13) teaches that He is "the First and the Last". Now in Isaiah concerning Yahweh we certainly see that the God Who is ONE is the First and the Last.

Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts,

I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God."

Is this the God of whom the SHEMA prayer is spoken? Yes.
Jesus, after resurrection teaches that He is "the First and the Last".

Again in Isaiah 48:12 God speaks to Israel -

" Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, whom I called;

I am He; I am the First, I am also the Last ..."

In Revelation 1, Jesus, who appears as "the Son of Man" teaches that He is God, the King of Israel become a man. And He went through death and is alive forever. The Lord God Who is ONE became a Man Who passed through death and Hades and came out in resurrection with the keys of those realms.

After resurrection Jesus speaking of His second coming declares He is still the FIrst and the Last as God declared in the OT.

"Behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to render to each one as his work is:

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." (Rev. 22:12,13)

The God of Israel who is ONE cannot be the First before the First.
The Son of God cannot be the First after the First.

There can only be THE First and THE Last.
So the One concerning Whom the SHEMA Prayer is offered is mysteriously Father - Son - Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by sonship

I have retained nothing from there. What I believe about God and the Lord Jesus, I have gleaned from my own study, Grace Min. USA, Spirit & Truth Fellowship and a couple local groups.

Is there something you learned from these groups that influenced you to believe that [b]Hebrews 1:8 should not captilze "God" in the English tra ...[text shortened]... hink the Son is addressed as "O God" as if the Son is ANOTHER small letter "god".[/b]

Is there something you learned from these groups that influenced you to believe that Hebrews 1:8 should not captilze "God" in the English translation

He 1:8 “Your throne, O god.” Quoted from Psalm 45:6. To understand why we have “god” in lower case in this verse, there is some important background information that must be understood. For one thing the Greek word theos, often translated “God,” can also refer to a pagan “god” or “goddess” (Acts 19:37), the Devil or a demon (2 Cor. 4:4), or of people who represent God in some way (John 10:34), in which case it is translated “god.” Furthermore, this is true of the Hebrew and Aramaic words for “God” as well—those words can also refer to God’s representatives or rulers. Also, in the early manuscripts the letters were all printed in upper case, in fact, Hebrew does not even have lower case letters. We will cover these points below in getting to our interpretation of the verse.

The English language makes a clear distinction between “God” and “god.” Thus, in English Bibles, the heavenly Father is called “God,” while angels, demons, lesser divinities, people who have God’s authority on earth, and important people such as kings, are called “god,” using a lower case “g” (cp. 2 Cor. 4:4; John 10:34-35; Acts 12:22).

So as you can see it was up to a translator to decide on a capitol or lower case g.
As I have already stated many of these translators were very biased.
You have said that because you don't know or read Greek, you have to trust these translators. I disagree and I think I have already made that clear.

Hebrews 1:8 is one of the verses translators disagree about. Most Trinitarians already believe Jesus is “GOD,” so they think “God” is the proper translation, while biblical Unitarians think Jesus is the created Son of God, and so favor “god” as the correct translation. We feel that here in Hebrews 1:8 the context is clear, and backed up by the scope of Scripture. Throughout the entire context of Hebrews 1, Jesus is presented as lesser than God the Father. Given that, the use of “THEOS” here should be translated “god.” In the context, Christ is called “THEOS” (GOD), but he has a “THEOS” (GOD). Hebrews 1:9 says, “therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions.” Christ cannot be the supreme God, because the supreme God does not have a God, but Christ does. Furthermore, Christ’s God “set” him above others and “anointed” him. This makes it abundantly clear that the use of THEOS here in Hebrews is not referring to Christ being the supreme God, but rather a man with great authority under another God.

http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/commentary/Hebrews/1

Since the founding of the Trinity around 325 AD, many devout Christians were slaughtered because thay would not receive the trinity.

Nicene decision didn’t end the debate

The Council of Nicaea did not end the controversy. Karen Armstrong explains: “Athanasius managed to impose his theology on the delegates . . . with the emperor breathing down their necks . . .

“The show of agreement pleased Constantine, who had no understanding of the theological issues, but in fact there was no unanimity at Nicaea. After the council, the bishops went on teaching as they had before, and the Arian crisis continued for another sixty years. Arius and his followers fought back and managed to regain imperial favor. Athanasius was exiled no fewer than five times. It was very difficult to make his creed stick” (pp. 110-111).

The ongoing disagreements were at times violent and bloody. Of the aftermath of the Council of Nicaea, noted historian Will Durant writes, “Probably more Christians were slaughtered by Christians in these two years (342-3) than by all the persecutions of Christians by pagans in the history of Rome” ( The Story of Civilization, Vol. 4: The Age of Faith, 1950, p. 8). Atrociously, while claiming to be Christian many believers fought and slaughtered one another over their differing views of God!

Of the following decades, Professor Harold Brown, cited earlier, writes: “During the middle decades of this century, from 340 to 380, the history of doctrine looks more like the history of court and church intrigues and social unrest . . . The central doctrines hammered out in this period often appear to have been put through by intrigue or mob violence rather than by the common consent of Christendom led by the Holy Spirit” (p. 119).

http://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/is-god-a-trinity/the-surprising-origins-of-the-trinity-doctrine

I have to go for now, but will return later..

Originally posted by checkbaiter

He 1:8 “Your throne, O god.” Quoted from Psalm 45:6. To understand why we have “god” in lower case in this verse, there is some important background information that must be understood. For one thing the Greek word theos, often translated “God,” can also refer to a pagan “god” or “goddess” (Acts 19:37), the Devil or a demon (2 Cor. 4:4), or of people who represent God in some way (John 10:34), in which case it is translated “god.” Furthermore, this is true of the Hebrew and Aramaic words for “God” as well—those words can also refer to God’s representatives or rulers. Also, in the early manuscripts the letters were all printed in upper case, in fact, Hebrew does not even have lower case letters. We will cover these points below in getting to our interpretation of the verse.

Do you think that Hebrews 1:8 is saying that the Son of God is a pagan "god" or "godess" ?

If "No" then that is no reason to read theos as "god" in verse 8.

Do you think verse 8 is saying the Son is a demon or a "devil" ?
If the answer is "No" then that rationale is also no good reason to read theos as "god" as pertaining to the Son.

Do you reason that Hebrews 1:8 is saying the Son is some miscellaneous person who "represents" God in some way ?

I don't think this is a good reason to read theos as "god" there because Hebrews 1:1 says of this Son something that it the Bible does not say of any miscellaneous "God representing person". It says -

" Who [the Son] , being THE effulgence of His glory and the impress of His substance ..." (v1)

This surely is a unique Person of whom something is true of which was not expressed for any other person ever.

So a pagan god or goddess, a demon or a "devil" or, a miscellaneous godly person representing God are clearly out of the question. These are weak excuses to read "god" there and resorting to a polytheistic belief of another god with a everlasting throne.

I have to discontinue for now.

Originally posted by yoctobyte

You used Matt 28 as evidence that "even Jesus" commanded his disciples to use the FS&HG formula, but I've shown you that in fact they didn't follow that wordage in any way you suggest supports your premise. I then also explained why they didn't.

I used Matt 28 to show that there is a godhead that consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirt ...[text shortened]... a Father, Son and Holy Spirit and that Jesus spoke of it. Can we at least agree on that point?

I know what you used Matt 28 for, but I debunked your claim by showing you that Jesus use of 'FS&HG' was not in any way supportive of him saying God was a "trinity" - he was saying (and as was totally demonstrated by the disciples) that:

- the singular name of the Father and the name of the son and of the holy ghost is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the "fullness of the godhead in bodily form".

I have proven this to you using scripture and you still refuse to accept it. The trinity teaching is error.

Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE.

Not three!

Originally posted by sonship

[b]" But of the Son, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, ...' " (Hebrews 1:8a)

Actually the correct translation is god, not God. Furthermore, the next verse continues on...

Neither you nor I read NT Greek. So on capitalizations and like issues we have to trust those translators who have the translation skill.

Having said ...[text shortened]... d's son be David's Lord ?

God is incarnated in Jesus Christ and the triune God is a reality.[/b]

"Hear oh Israel, the Lord your god is ONE" appears many times in scripture.

"Hear oh Israel, the lord your God is three, doesn't appear once. A bit odd that don't you think?

Nor do the words "triune" or "trinity" in fact, ZERO times.

Originally posted by divegeester
"Hear oh Israel, the Lord your god is [b]ONE" appears many times in scripture.

"Hear oh Israel, the lord your God is three, doesn't appear once. A bit odd that don't you think?

Nor do the words "triune" or "trinity" in fact, ZERO times.[/b]

So when Jesus says that He and the Father will come and make an abode with the lovers of Jesus as "WE", that means to you God and someone else who is not God ?

" Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)

1.) Does "We" mean to you God plus someone else who is not God ?

2.) If God comes to make an abode with a man, what possible need is there for any additional person to come with God who is not God ?

The Divine "We" there refers to God. And the ancient brothers were right to arrive at a phrase "Trinity" to describe this mysterious Divine "We".