Jesus' Teaching After Resurrection

Post resurrection teaching - Jesus warns the quite busy church, quite discerning church, and quite faithful church that He notices that they have left their first love.

He instructs them to repent and come back to the first works. These must be works which issue out of the first love. We will see what I think these are in a minute.

"But I have one thing against you, that you have left your first love.

Remember therefore where you have fallen from and repent and do the first works; ... " (Rev. 2:4,5a)

Post resurrection - Jesus wants the disciples not to depart from their first love.

Now many of us did not love the Lord Jesus at first. Many of the Christians did not love Jesus a lot when they first got saved. Mostly they wanted the HELP of Jesus with this or that personal problem.

So you may wonder what is the first love then. The first love of Jesus is the love of Jesus that puts Jesus Number one. The first love of Jesus places Jesus above all things and all matters. The first love of Jesus puts Jesus as the first place in everything.

What is first? What is the first consideration? What is of the most importance in each and every matter of our lives? It should be the Lord Jesus. The first love puts Jesus in His place, His rightful place as THE First.

Post resurrection and in exaltation - Jesus teaches us to make Him FIRST, love him FIRST, allow Him preeminence.

The Father cannot be made more happy than by those who make Jesus first and give Jesus the preeminent first place in everything. The Holy Spirit cannot be made more happy than by those who put Jesus as the FIRST and preeminent One in each and everything.

"But I have one thing against you, that you have left your first love.

Remember therefore where you have fallen from and repent and do the first works; but if not, I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place, unless you repent."

Originally posted by sonship

That is a rather strange way of looking at it.
No one is saying Jesus is any of these.
Jesus has been given all authority by God.
God does not need anyone to give Him authority since He is God.

That is no reason to believe that small letter "god" should be read in [b]Hebrews 1:8.

God can express Himself as perfect authority. ...[text shortened]... [/b] [/quote]

The revelation is not going to go away though you want to ignore this passage.[/b]

Originally posted by sonship
Now we can have a serious conversation or we can resort to time wasting frivolous gimmicks. Does it advance anything for you to brag about how "amused" you are ?

Originally posted by divegeester
It doesn't advance things when you ignore my posts and follow up with your trademark huge preachy monologues either.

Besides it does amuse me to see two trinitarians arguing over the three alphas and three omegas. There is only ONE.

"Hear oh Israel (that's you by the way), the Lord you God is [b]ONE."

Not three. 😀[/b]

It doesn't advance things when you ignore my posts and follow up with your trademark huge preachy monologues either.

Originally posted by sonship

Would you rather it said "I am the Father and I will come make my abode with you"?

I don't "rather" it say anything but what it says. I say "Amen" to whatever it says.

It is always best to just [b]"Amen!" the word of God for whatever it says.
So I have no problem with the Father and the Son coming as the divine "We" of t ...[text shortened]... also can believe that Jehovah of host is both the Sender and the One Sent in Zechariah 2.[/b]

Originally posted by checkbaiter

" ... and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (See John 14:23)

" But when He, the Spirit of reality comes, He will guide you into all the reality; for He will not speak from Himself, but what He hears He will speak; and He will declare to you the things that are coming.

He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will declare it to you.
All that the Father has is Mine; for this reason I have said that He receives of Mine and will declare it to you." (John 16:13-15)

"All that the Father has is Mine; for this reason I have said that He [the Spirit] receives of Mine and will declare it to you."(John 16:15)

"One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Eph. 4:6)

" Test yourselves hether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved? (2 Cor. 13:5)

"We will come to him and make an abode with him." (See John 14:23) [quote]

That's two down and one to go.
The Holy Spirit is in me too of course:

[quote] " Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own ? (1 Cor. 6:19)

Instead you jump through hoops trying to refute the One God and One Lord.
Even though Trinitarians have to invent words like Trinity,
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I am not jumping through hoops. I am being dispensed into by the Triune God and built up into the Body of Christ for His eternal purpose.

Let me save you a little time. Don't bother trying to get me to be ashamed in some way for using the wonderful term TRIUNE GOD.



god man, incarnate, triune God, divine Trinity and the like....they can't be found anywhere in scripture.
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Sure these truths can be seen in Scripture.


I have seen both sides. I used to believe that you could pray to Mary, and different saints, and that Mary was God's mother!
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Guilt by association will not work.
If you want to argue about worship of "Mary the Mother of God" you'll have to find someone else to defend that worship.

You're discussing the worship of the Triune God by me.
Don't try to slip in some other matter of idolatry in an attempt to lump the revelation of the three-oneness of God with some heretical practice or teaching.


But I have come a long way since 50 years ago when I used to attend Religious Ed after school. God woke me up to the truth.
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You've seen it ALL boy ! "Been there, done that, seen it ALL !"

That's nice. The revelation of the Triune God remains in the Holy Bible.

Maybe you got indoctrinated to place on a pedestal an objective teaching called "The Trinity". And you noticed your shortage of the enjoyment of life. So you thought to knock down from the pedestal the objective dogma of Trinity.

That's your world. I was taught that the Father - Son - Holy Spirit are for out enjoyment of experience. I learn this from enjoyers and from SCripture itself.

" The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." ( 2 Cor. 13:14)

" For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us.
And the government is upon His shoulder;

And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

" A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God ... For utter destruction and a strict decision is the Lord Jehovah of hosts performing in the midst of the whole land." (See Isaiah 10:21,23)

" The first man is out of the earth, earthy; the second man is out of heaven." ( 1 Cor. 15:47 )

"... the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

In Edward Gibbons, from the preface to History of Christianity you will find this..

“If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure deism [belief in one person who is God] of the first Christians . . . was changed by the church of Rome, into
the incomprehensible dogma of the Trinity.

" Another parable He spoke to them: The kingdom of the heavens is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three meausures of meal until the whole was leavened." (Matt. 13:33)

IV. THE INWARD CORRUPTION
OF THE OUTWARD APPEARANCE OF THE KINGDOM

A. The Parable of Leaven

With the appearance of the kingdom, there are three items: the changed nature, the tares; the changed outward appearance, the façade, the big tree; and the inward rottenness and corruption, the leaven. This brings us to the parable of the leaven.

1. The Kingdom of the Heavens Being like Leaven

Verse 33 says, “Another parable He spoke to them: The kingdom of the heavens is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal until the whole was leavened.” Leaven in the Scriptures signifies evil things (1 Cor. 5:6, 8) and evil doctrines (Matt. 16:6, 11-12).

2. A Woman (the Apostate Catholic Church) Having Taken the Leaven and Hidden It
in Three Measures of Meal

Verse 33 says that a woman took leaven and hid it in three measures of meal. The church, as the practical kingdom of the heavens, with Christ—the unleavened fine flour—as its content, must be the unleavened bread (1 Cor. 5:7-8). However, the Catholic Church, which was fully and officially formed in the sixth century and which is signified by the woman here, took many pagan practices, heretical doctrines, and evil matters and mixed them with the teachings concerning Christ to leaven the whole content of Christianity. This fourth parable corresponds to the fourth of the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3, the church in Thyatira (2:18-29). This became the inward content of the outward appearance of the kingdom of the heavens.

Meal, for making the meal offering (Lev. 2:1), signifies Christ as food to both God and man. Three measures is the quantity needed to make a full meal (Gen. 18:6). Hence, to hide the leaven in three measures of meal signifies that the Catholic Church has fully leavened in a hidden way all the teachings concerning Christ. This is the actual situation in the Roman Catholic Church. This is absolutely against the Scripture, which strongly forbids putting any leaven into the meal offering (Lev. 2:4-5, 11).

The parable of the leaven reveals the matter of mixture. The three measures of meal refer to fine flour made of wheat grain. This fine flour was always used in the meal offering, the food for God’s priests. Those who served God as priests fed on the fine flour of the meal offering. The meal offering was not only for the satisfaction of God’s priests, but also for the satisfaction of God Himself. Thus, the meal offering was food both for the priests and for God. The meal offering is a full type of Christ in His humanity, with the fine flour signifying Christ. When the Lord appeared to Abraham, Abraham told Sarah, his wife, to prepare a full meal with three measures of fine flour. Hence, in the Bible, three measures denotes a full meal. The fact that three measures of meal have been leavened by the woman indicates that everything related to Christ has been leavened by this evil woman.

The woman of Matthew 13 is the Jezebel of Revelation 2. According to history, Thyatira signifies the apostate Roman Church. The apostate Roman Church is the woman of Matthew 13 and the Jezebel of Revelation 2. Eventually this evil woman will become the great prostitute, called Babylon the Great, seen in Revelation 17. Thus, the woman in Matthew 13, Revelation 2, and Revelation 17 is the apostate Catholic Church. After the papal system had been established, the many pagan practices which had been brought in were confirmed by that system. This is documented in Alexander Hislop’s book, The Two Babylons .

Maybe you got indoctrinated to place on a pedestal an objective teaching called "The Trinity". And you noticed your shortage of the enjoyment of life. So you thought to knock down from the pedestal the objective dogma of Trinity.

I have plenty of joy in the Lord, thank you. I did not get put on any pedestal. I am only exalted when I humble myself to Him. My contention with the Trinity is I do not believe it exists and I believe it robs God (Yahweh) of His rightful place as the only true God who is one.
It also dishonors the Lord Jesus by making him to be something he is not.
Jesus did not exist before he was born.
Here is what the angel Gabriel said to Joseph about Jesus Christ:
“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph,
before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her
husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put
her away secretly.
“20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a
dream, saying, ‘Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that
which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call
His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins.’
“22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the
prophet, saying: 23 ‘Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His
name Immanuel,’ which is translated, ‘God with us.’” (Matthew 1:18-22)

The word translated “conceived” in verse 20, is the Greek word “gennao” which means to
beget. Conception and begetting mark the point in time in which a person begins to exist. In fact the beginning of Matthew states, “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham” (Matthew 1:1). The word translated “geneology” is “genesis” in Greek!
Matthew, chapter 1, tells us how Jesus Christ came into existence.
Just as the heavens and the earth came into existence by the creative power of God (recorded in the book of Genesis), and did not exist before its creation, so Jesus came into existence, for the first time, by the creative power of God in Mary’s womb.
Jesus did not pre-exist in heaven as God and then decide to reduce himself and then pass through time and space and enter Mary’s womb as a baby.
An entity like this is not “conceived” or “begotten” he merely passes through one form of life into another (kind of like a sci-fi character). Again, let’s listen to Gabriel, this time speaking to Mary.
“Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s
name was Mary. 28 And having come in, the angel said to her, ‘Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!’
“29 But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30 Then the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found
favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall
call His name JESUS. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob
forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.’
“34 Then Mary said to the angel, ‘How can this be, since I do not know a man?’
35 And the angel answered and said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power
of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be
called the Son of God.’” (Luke 1:26-35)

Jesus is conceived and begotten and comes into existence in Mary’s womb by a
miracle of God’s power. Jesus is not an ‘eternally begotten” (whatever that means!) Son of God,
who passes from one form of life into another. Gabriel states in verse 35, “therefore dio kai – i.e. “for this reason”, because of God’s creative act within Mary’s womb …that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God” (by the way, the NIV Bible waters down the Greek considerably!).
Roman Catholic scholar, Raymond Brown, commenting on the “therefore” in Luke 1:35, states,
“of the nine times dio kai occurs in the New Testament…it involves a certain causality…this has
embarrassed many orthodox theologians since in preexistence Christology a conception by the
holy spirit in Mary’s womb does not bring about the existence of God’s Son. Luke is seemingly
unaware of such a [preexistent] Christology; conception is causally related to divine Sonship for
him.” (The Birth of the Messiah, 1977)

In other words, for Luke and Gabriel, God’s creative act in Mary’s womb begets (brings into
existence) Jesus as God’s Son. There is no hint of any suggestion at all that there was an
incarnation where a pre-existing spirit being transformed himself and became a human baby.
Jesus is a true man and came into existence by the creative power of God just as Adam did
(Luke 1:23, 38). There is only one true God and He is the Father of Jesus Christ.

I have so much more that shows the errors of the Trinity, but I regress.
Do you know why? For a couple of reasons....
1. I don't think you would change your mind no matter what I show you.
Someone once said they would not let the bible stand in the way of what they believe.
I have found this to be true in many cases.
2. I have noticed that there are Trinitarians, Unitarians, Baptist, Lutherans, etc.
And you know what I found? God works with all kinds of people! He loves them and blesses them right where they are. It is not as important to Him about doctrine (which is important too) as it is about faith and relationship.
I am finding God is more interested in people being humble, loving Him and continue to fellowship with Him and fellow believers.
But this has been an interesting discussion for me and I hope others, but I am in the process of packing and moving. I don't have as much time as I would like and my internet will be disrupted soon.
So for now I will only post for a few minutes when I can for the next couple weeks, and make my chess moves when I can.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

I have plenty of joy in the Lord, thank you. I did not get put on any pedestal. I am only exalted when I humble myself to Him. My contention with the Trinity is I do not believe it exists and I believe it robs God (Yahweh) of His rightful place as the only true God who is one.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

The word translated “conceived” in verse 20, is the Greek word “gennao” which means to
beget. Conception and begetting mark the point in time in which a person begins to exist. In fact the beginning of Matthew states, “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham” (Matthew 1:1). The word translated “geneology” is “genesis” in Greek!

Matthew, chapter 1, tells us how Jesus Christ came into existence.
Just as the heavens and the earth came into existence by the creative power of God (recorded in the book of Genesis), and did not exist before its creation, so Jesus came into existence, for the first time, by the creative power of God in Mary’s womb.

" But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, So little to be among the thousands of Judah,

From you there will come forth to Me He who is to be Ruler in Israel;

And His goings forth are from ancient times, From days of eternity." (Micah 5:2)

" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not one thing came into being which has come into being." (John 1:1-3)

"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father), full of grace and reality. (John 1:14)

Jesus did not pre-exist in heaven as God and then decide to reduce himself and then pass through time and space and enter Mary’s womb as a baby.

" Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being I am." (John 8:58b)

An entity like this is not “conceived” or “begotten” he merely passes through one form of life into another (kind of like a sci-fi character). Again, let’s listen to Gabriel, this time speaking to Mary.

" All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not one thing came into being which has come into being." (John 1:3)

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]That is not a good example of the Three-oneness of God.
No it is not. Joseph is a good example of One God and One Lord, not three.[/b]

Originally posted by checkbaiter

Jesus is conceived and begotten and comes into existence in Mary’s womb by a
miracle of God’s power. Jesus is not an ‘eternally begotten” (whatever that means!) Son of God,
who passes from one form of life into another. Gabriel states in verse 35, “therefore dio kai – i.e. “for this reason”, because of God’s creative act within Mary’s womb …that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God” (by the way, the NIV Bible waters down the Greek considerably!).
Roman Catholic scholar, Raymond Brown, commenting on the “therefore” in Luke 1:35, states,

" For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations ..." (Zech. 1:8a)

"For I [Jehovah of hosts] am now waving My hand over them ... and they will be plunder for those who served them; and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me." (v.9)

" .. for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah." (v.10b)

" ... I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah.

And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people.; and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." (v.10c,11)

Originally posted by sonship

It doesn't advance things when you ignore my posts and follow up with your trademark huge preachy monologues either.

Oh what does the true seeker care about "preachy monologues" as long as he is brought to the truth.

Now, limitation of time is a reality. If there is some burning matter that you as so sure I am shrinking from addressin ...[text shortened]... o much writing here.

so what's your devastating biggy that you imagine I am cowering from ??