Knowing vs. discovering

Originally posted by hakima
The OP interests me and produced the following reflection, which is always in process with me and ever subject to the fluidity of perceptions:

From the beginning, the "lie" in the Genesis story is that Adam and Eve, in partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil would become as the gods...the half truth of it is that they would not surely die...but ...[text shortened]... f miracles, if you will...

Simply a few thoughts here...thank you for opening the discussion.

I agree.

"Knowledge puffs up" but in seeking to discover lies salvation.

Take the prodigal son for example, he was "saved" at the moment he decided to seek out his father, partly because that point was the start of repentance and partly because his father was looking for him and saw him coming.

The woman with the "issue of blood" was probably ostracised and weak with anaemia, but she sought out The Lord to touch his robe. As you say, "discovery requires faith".

Nicodemus another seeker who was chastised for his knowledge not being put to good use. Certainly not helping him.

Paul, a man of much knowledge, spent 14 years seeking before preaching a word.

Seek first the Kingdom of God.

Originally posted by divegeester
The OP presumes that it is better to seek to discover than to presume to know.

Does it occur to you that there are two other options
[1. not "to seek to discover" at all and 2. to actually know: "I know Him in whom I have believed"]?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Does it occur to you that there are two other options
[1. not "to seek to discover" at all and 2. to actually know: "I know Him in whom I have believed"]?

Yes it has occurred to me that there are in fact several permutations, depending on syntax and language variations.

However in this instance the "knowing" is clearly about being "certain of something/data/interpretation - quantitative) rather than "knowing a person" (more qualitative). These are entirely different concepts.

Originally posted by divegeester
There is if the "knower" is wrong.

And this presumption is yours alone.

I said, "One either knows or one does not know." Clearly, if the "knower" is wrong, then he does not know, and can thus not really be called the "knower". But even so, most of the presumption lies in those who would make themselves his judge.

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes it has occurred to me that there are in fact several permutations, depending on syntax and language variations.

However in this instance the "knowing" is clearly about being "certain of something/data/interpretation - quantitative) rather than "knowing a person" (more qualitative). These are entirely different concepts.

divegeester, as a professed believer in Christ, do you know with absolute certainty that you've been given eternal life as a grace gift; are in relationship with God; will live in heaven in His presence for eternity or are you in doubt of your salvation?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
divegeester, as a professed believer in Christ, do you know with absolute certainty that you've been given eternal life as a grace gift; are in relationship with God; will live in heaven in His presence for eternity or are you in doubt of your salvation?

Does "doubt" threaten the chance of "salvation", in your view?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
divegeester, as a professed believer in Christ, do you know with absolute certainty that you've been given eternal life as a grace gift; are in relationship with God; will live in heaven in His presence for eternity or are you in doubt of your salvation?

No.

Originally posted by FMF
Does "doubt" threaten the chance of "salvation", in your view?

"salvation" is a point in time event at which the Holy Spirit gives spiritual life; His work is permanent. "doubt" suggests lack of confidence due to inadequate teaching of God's Word. All new believers require food; all growing believers require food.

Originally posted by divegeester
No.

Replied to FMF's post thinking it was yours. Must get a stronger pair of drugstore glasses.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"salvation" is a point in time event at which the Holy Spirit gives spiritual life; His work is permanent. "doubt" suggests lack of confidence due to inadequate teaching of God's Word. All new believers require food; all growing believers require food.

The question was: Does "doubt" threaten the chance of "salvation", in your view?

If it does not affect it, why is it relevant?

You have told me in the past that I am "saved" and cannot undo this fact, even though I do not believe in the divinity of Christ and I am not a Christian. You explained that 'at a moment in time' I did believe, and that I was irrevocably "saved" at that time.

If disbelief is not barrier to "salvation", in your view, what possible significance could "doubt" have?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"salvation" is a point in time event at which the Holy Spirit gives spiritual life; His work is permanent. "doubt" suggests lack of confidence due to inadequate teaching of God's Word. All new believers require food; all growing believers require food.

I'm not a "new believer".

Originally posted by divegeester
You keep talking about Asimov being "Jewish", as though being "Jewish" means he is in someway predisposed to theism. Is that what you are saying?

No. Learn to read.

I'm saying that being brought up in a culturally Jewish family means that you are likely to make statements that fit in your Jewish cultural background, even if you don't believe in the Jewish religion any more.

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
I'm saying that being brought up in a culturally Jewish family means that you are likely to make statements that fit in your Jewish cultural background, even if you don't believe in the Jewish religion any more.

You saying it, doesn't make it so.

Originally posted by divegeester
No.

Have a little more faith, and believe in what the Lord has revealed to you. He doesn't lie, and He's not really in it just for the lulz you know.