30 Apr 19
@sonship saidYou seem to yet again be equating what I perceive as your sick interpretation of biblical verses, with the words of Jesus.
@divegeester
Actually I don’t put much stock in them either.
Do you put any stock in the words of Christ ?
Or do you designate the ones that you don't like as "sick" ?
You really should stop doing this.
@sonship saidDon’t change the subject, thank you.
@divegeester
Oh I see, so there are multiple places where your God will be burning non Christians alive for eternity.
Whatever floats your sick boat sonship.
In no verse in the Scripture I know is the word "non Christians" used.
Why did Revelation 20:15 say those whose names were not in the book of life rather than "non Christians" ?
Why didn't Jesus refer to the sheep as "Christians" and the goats as "non Christians" in Matthew 25 ?
Scripture in Revelation clearly places “The Lamb” in the presence of those suffering eternally in the lake of fire.
Your quibbling just makes you look furtive.
30 Apr 19
@galveston75 saidThe Lake of Fire is not a real place. If it is, where is it? What fuels it? Who made it? Is it a place Satan controls as false religion shows? If it is controlled by Satan and it's his "job to torture" and if this is the place God sends all bad people to burn forever, then doesn't that imply that Satan and God are in this together? How stupid.
What is the "lake of fire"? Is it the same place as "hell"?
If this is a real place then both God and Jesus have lied to us all. Because the Bible says many times over and in many ways that once you die, your body or soul goes to the common grave or Sheol or Hades or hell. They all are the same place, the grave. Then your spirit or life force goes back to Jehovah the giver of life. The bible says he keeps us in his memory and that once the resurrection starts for all humans that have died up to Armageddon, he will then start the resurrection of all to live once again in a cleansed earth free of Satan for 1000 years.
That will end the "first death". The "second death" is for all that even after being resurrected' still refuse to accept Jehovah and his ways of ruling the earth. Then a little after the 1000 years are up, all will be judged once again. Those who do not accept Jehovah will be destroyed along with Satan to never see life again. This is the second death.
The symbolic lake of Fire simply denotes complete destruction such as a fire can completely destroy anything it consumes. Also thrown into this fire is all of mankind's governments and false religions that man and Satan have brought upon this earth to ruin all that we have seen thru history.
If anyone would like to discuss this more with scriptures I would love to. Just message me here at RHP.
@galveston75 saidClassic Galveston75.
If anyone would like to discuss this more with scriptures I would love to. Just message me here at RHP.
I guess this is goodbye for now, until the next time you rock up and get your ears boxed about your cult’s adherence to child sacrifice to Jehovah through withholding blood transfusions, its covering up of child sex abuse on a global scale and the ostracisation of congregational detractors.
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01 May 19
Don’t change the subject, thank you.
Scripture in Revelation clearly places “The Lamb” in the presence of those suffering eternally in the lake of fire.
Your quibbling just makes you look furtive.
I didn't change any subject but sought to answer some questions directly.
I stand by what I wrote.
And "ruffled feathers" I thought was you critics expression of choice.
Better then "sound furtive".
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I think there may be a correlation between people who do not really believe that Jesus is God incarnate and their rejection of the prospect of "an eternal sin" (Mark 3:29) accompanied with everlasting punishment.
It seems that the strongest objectors to the revelation of eternal damnation goes hand in hand with the unbelief that God in Christ died for them on Calvary.
"Jesus is not God" accompanied by "How could God allow punishment forever ?? "
02 May 19
@sonship saidIn my case, the moral incoherence of the torturer god ideology is something my eyes opened to pretty much after I lost my faith. It had little or nothing to do with that process of becoming an ex-Christian. My lack of belief in what Christians claim about the identity and significance of Jesus and the claims they make about themselves that stem from their belief in Jesus was caused by my loss of belief that the Bible is a credible source to substantiate all those claims.
It seems that the strongest objectors to the revelation of eternal damnation goes hand in hand with the unbelief that God in Christ died for them on Calvary.
02 May 19
@sonship saidYou failed to change the subject away from the scrutiny you were/are under.
@divegeester
Don’t change the subject, thank you.
Your quibbling just makes you look furtive.
I didn't change any subject but sought to answer some questions directly.I stand by what I wrote.
@sonship said.... They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
I think there may be a correlation between people who do not really believe that Jesus is God incarnate and their rejection of the prospect of "an eternal sin" (Mark 3:29) accompanied with everlasting punishment.
It seems that the strongest objectors to the revelation of eternal damnation goes hand in hand with the unbelief that God in Christ died for them on Calvary.
"Jesus is not God" accompanied by "How could God allow punishment forever ?? "
Revelation 14:10
The “Lamb” is Jesus Christ the torment with burning sulfur is hell. It’s an unequivocal statement. You just don’t like it.
Of course I believe the whole account is metaphorical, so it’s a moot point; but you believe it’s real and the Lamb in hell situation is therefore inescapable.
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02 May 19
1 edit
.... They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:10
The “Lamb” is Jesus Christ the torment with burning sulfur is hell. It’s an unequivocal statement. You just don’t like it.
Of course I believe the whole account is metaphorical, so it’s a moot point; but you believe it’s real and the Lamb in hell situation is therefore inescapable.
I am not sure how this post is a reply to my post.
It goes back to a previous point about Jesus going into hell (if I understood you) to witness eternal punishment.
You do not seem to get that HELL is SHEOL is the realm of the dead or HADES. The popular vernacular makes hell or hades mean the place of fiery punishment.
Galveston, in spite of his other errors, is correct that HELL does not equal the fiery punishment. I too have pointed this out.
Strictly speaking ... strictly speaking EVERYONE WHO DIES GOES TO HELL - saved and unsaved. Did you get that ? Everyone who dies goes to Hades - to Hell.
Now Revelation 14:10 says these followers of Antichrist will be tormented in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb. It is not a matter of what I like or do not like.
It didn't say Jesus goes to Hades to witness this.
It didn't say Jesus goes to Hell to witness this.
It didn't say Jesus goes to Sheol to witness this.
I think that is what you said.
I said what the passages said - they are punished before Him and the angels. Even if it was taking place in hell, that would not necessitate Jesus taking a convoy of angels with Him there. That is because -
Sheol lies OPEN before God. Proverb 15:11.
Anyway, you are thinking in the vernacular sense - "Jesus goes to hell or He cannot see His enemies being punished there. Or He has to go there or He goes there to see the goings on there."
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02 May 19
I wonder if there is a correlation between the unbelief that Jesus was God incarnate and the prospect of eternal punishment.
I am not sure. But it seems the people I encounter who object to eternal punishment the strongest are the ones who also believe in the incomplete deity of Christ.
Divegeester, for example, believes that the office of the Son of God is not eternal but temporary.
Galveston, for example, believes that Jesus was the arch-angel Michael become human.
Of course Ghost and other atheists would only regard Jesus as a man if not a completely mythological person.
Christians hold the Jesus Christ is God incarnate. In Christ God Himself went as far as He could possibly go to demonstrate His love and take into Himself the penalty of our sins.
I wonder if the rejection of Christ as God Himself incarnate as a man and the skepticism about eternal punishment are correlated.
02 May 19
@sonship saidThat you would spend post after waffly post arguing as to wether the Lamb witnessing the eternal torment in Hell or Sheol or wherever and completely obfuscating the point that no matter what you call it, the Lamb is right there overseeing the torment...is a pretty fair reflection of your tiny perspective on this topic and an insight into your smallness.
@divegeester
[quote] .... They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:10
The “Lamb” is Jesus Christ the torment with burning sulfur is hell. It’s an unequivocal statement. You just don’t like it.
Of course I believe the whole account is metaphorical, so it’s a moot point; but you believe it’s real ...[text shortened]... is enemies being punished there. Or He has to go there or He goes there to see the goings on there."
@sonship saidWell you’re the only one here, and in fact the only person I’ve ever met who believes that there are aliens on other planets being deterred from doing evil by them being able to witness the eternal suffering going on...wherever it is supposedly going on.
I wonder if there is a correlation between the unbelief that Jesus was God incarnate and the prospect of eternal punishment.
I am not sure. But it seems the people I encounter who object to eternal punishment the strongest are the ones who also believe in the incomplete deity of Christ.
Divegeester, for example, believes that the office of the Son of God is not eternal ...[text shortened]... Christ as God Himself incarnate as a man and the skepticism about eternal punishment are correlated.
You’re an absolute fruit loop.
