09 Aug 10
Originally posted by galveston75Well, at least I am glad you are appreciative and feeling entertained. 😵
Lol...This is truely entertaining. I am appreciating these comments from a few of you as I am even more convienced beyond a doubt of the power of Satan and how far humans as a whole have lost the insight and connection we once had with God.
1 John 5:19. "We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."
...[text shortened]... d, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
I still feel quite sorry for you, especially given your self-loathing views on humanity.
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by gtbiking4lifePlease look back at the scriptures that were Jesus's own words about keeping the congregations clean of ones that """"still practice""" wrong doings and to ""remove"" them from the congregations..
Yet we are commanded to judge not and we shall not be judged. We are also commanded to love one another (even homosexuals). If you would act any differently in welcoming a homosexual into your Church, then I have to wonder how a Church who believes in and follows Jesus Christ can be so un-Christ like.
It still seems to be the point that everyone keeps missing here.
If one repents and gains forgiveness for a sin they commit, does that make sense that it's ok to go out that same day and do it again and again and again? No. What Jesus demonstrated and taught is when one commits a gross sin, a serious sin that would qualify to be removed from the congregation, but shows honest repentance and honestly promises God and the congregation that he will not do it again, then that's where we all forgive happily and welcome them to all our meetings. But if that person insist on purposely committing that gross sin and the possible damaging influance it could have on the congregation, then that is what Jesus was commanding the congregations to do, expel them with the hope they will get the impact of that sin and stop doing it and gain back the acceptance of the congregations.
Is that not what most countries do within their judicial system and remove ones who commit gross sins or crimes to possibly rehabilitate them and to protect their subjects?
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by galveston75Is love a sin?
Please look back at the scriptures that were Jesus's own words about keeping the congregations clean of ones that """"still practice""" wrong doings and to ""remove"" them from the congregations..
It still seems to be the point that everyone keeps missing here.
If one repents and gains forgiveness for a sin they commit, does that make sense that it' ...[text shortened]... gross sins or crimes to possibly rehabilitate them and to protect their subjects?
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasThe wrong kind. One could love a neighbors wife or his neighbors belongings. One could love the sicknees of being a pedophile, or alcohal or illegal drugs.
Is love a sin?
But I know where your going with this, so what if someone truly loves one of the same sex and means absolutley no harm to anyone?
I personally know of 3 JW's that admit that they are not attracted to ones of the opposite sex but to the same sex.
This is where they have taken God's views and commands to obstain from pursuing that life style to heart and they do understand that in Jehovah's eyes and in his wisdom that it is wrong. They know it's not a natural thing to do and do see the inherited health risk involved.
And the most important is they know if they remain faithful to God that someday they will be rewarded for it. Rev 21:5 says that soon "God will make all things new."
All the problems we have now will be corrected.
The homosexuality issue is by no means new. It has been around as long as there have been humans. God reads hearts and is compassionent with ones who suffer with that issue. And the elders are understanding with that also. But just as one may have an inclination from birth to be attracted to violance, drunkeness, etc, it is up to us to ask God for help to see the wisdom in his ways. It's for our protection that we listen to God.
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by galveston75They know it's not a natural thing to do and do see the inherited health risk involved.
The wrong kind. One could love a neighbors wife or his neighbors belongings. One could love the sicknees of being a pedophile, or alcohal or illegal drugs.
But I know where your going with this, so what if someone truly loves one of the same sex and means absolutley no harm to anyone?
I personally know of 3 JW's that admit that they are not attracted ...[text shortened]... od for help to see the wisdom in his ways. It's for our protection that we listen to God.
Maybe you could elaborate here please.
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasthe difference that seems to divide Christianity is whether a group believes that Christ was the fulfillment of Levitical law or not.
This 'letter' puts a thumb into every christians eye who says that the bible is the Truth. If we would live by the 'book', then we have to accept a lot of things, a lot of punishment. The sharia laws, as an example, is based on this tradition described in the leviticus .
I've never seen any serious christian that seriously could explain these contradic ...[text shortened]... le is inspired of god, and the will of god, then I'm glad that I'm not christian.
Hebrews 10
Christ's Sacrifice Once for All
1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.' "[a] 8First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16"This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds."[b] 17Then he adds:
"Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more."[c] 18And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by gtbiking4lifeSounds like your treatment of homosexuals is in line with the teachings of Jesus.
Sure I'm aware of that and that's their choice - I choose to act differently though. I know someone who is homosexual and treat them the same as I treat anyone else - with love and respect.
Can you clarify your beliefs on the following?:
Surely you are aware that there are Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin. And that there are Christians who support ostracizing homosexuals from their church (especially if they are not celibate).
The reason I ask for clarification is that you identify yourself as LDS, yet from what I've read, the official LDS position seems to be in line with the above. So it seems that either what I've read is incorrect or you've placed the teachings of Jesus above the teachings of the organization that you are affiliated with. If it's the latter, then I have to give you your props, since so few seem to be willing to do so.
09 Aug 10
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75You think that love of a special kind is a sin. Probably according to Leviticus 18:22. Because the bibel shows the Truth, right?
The wrong kind. One could love a neighbors wife or his neighbors belongings. One could love the sicknees of being a pedophile, or alcohal or illegal drugs.
But I know where your going with this, so what if someone truly loves one of the same sex and means absolutley no harm to anyone?
I personally know of 3 JW's that admit that they are not attracted od for help to see the wisdom in his ways. It's for our protection that we listen to God.
Then, in congruence with the above, you also think that you may not approach the altar of God if you have a defect in your sight. I am slightly myopic, therefore it is a sin to go to the church, according to Leviticus 21:20. Because the bibel shows the Truth, right?
This is not my words, it's the word of the Holy Scripture, where God Himself inspire the author to write His Will in order that people should behave correctly. Not make love to someone you love, if it is the wrong kind, and not go to church if you don't have sharp eyes.
This is what this thread is about. Two rules of God, one that is dead serious, the other one that you can neglect whenever you like. One is a sin, the other one is not, even if you can find the two rules only a few pages from eachother.
How many elders in JW has glasses? Do they aproach the altar? Are they commiting sins?
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasWell we don't have alters nor does God require them or does he require anyone to follow the old Mosaic laws anymore . Jesus took the place of that process for forgivness of sins.
You think that love of a special kind is a sin. Probably according to Leviticus 18:22. Because the bibel shows the Truth, right?
Then, in congruence with the above, you also think that you may not approach the altar of God if you have a defect in your sight. I am slightly myopic, therefore it is a sin to go to the church, according to Leviticus 21:20. ...[text shortened]... her.
How many elders in JW has glasses? Do they aproach the altar? Are they commiting sins?
I never said it is a sin to love, as you seem to be a master at either twisting everything you read or you just don't read it at all, I said it is a sin to pursue the attraction one may have for the same sex.
I'll give you an B- for effort though..Lol
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by galveston75As Leviticus is the part of the bible, and you find the Bible the Ultimate Truth - and now you say that some part of the bible is obsolete?
Well we don't have alters nor does God require them or does he require anyone to follow the old Mosaic laws anymore . Jesus took the place of that process for forgivness of sins.
I never said it is a sin to love, as you seem to be a master at either twisting everything you read or you just don't read it at all, I said it is a sin to pursue the attraction one may have for the same sex.
I'll give you an B- for effort though..Lol
Also the part about the Creation is obsolete? And the global Flooding, and what else? Who says that some part is obsolete and others not? You? The JW? Who?
You say that love according to Leviticus 18:22 is a sin, but it's the Mosaic law, so that we don't have to consider? I don't get it. Sometimes it's a sin, sometimes we can ignore it.
You define part of the bible is obsolete, and yet you define the same part as the truth. I don't get it. Reminds me of the "1984" and "the double thinking" described therein.
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasI'm not falling for this as you really don't read much of anything I post do you? That subject has been discussed here many times and I see no need to re post it again.
As Leviticus is the part of the bible, and you find the Bible the Ultimate Truth - and now you say that some part of the bible is obsolete?
Also the part about the Creation is obsolete? And the global Flooding, and what else? Who says that some part is obsolete and others not? You? The JW? Who?
You say that love according to Leviticus 18:22 is a sin ...[text shortened]... . I don't get it. Reminds me of the "1984" and "the double thinking" described therein.
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by galveston75Why not copy and paste? 🙂
I'm not falling for this as you really don't read much of anything I post do you? That subject has been discussed here many times and I see no need to re post it again.
Seriously - You discard some parts of the bible as obsolete, and yet you think the bible is the truth. That's an oxymoron. You cannot have it both ways.
09 Aug 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasNothing in the bible is obsolete as you put it. many princioles still apply in our everyday life's. If you really understood what the laws were for and what it showed that we needed as in Jesus and what he accomplished you'd understand.
Why not copy and paste? 🙂
Seriously - You discard some parts of the bible as obsolete, and yet you think the bible is the truth. That's an oxymoron. You cannot have it both ways.
I'd honestly explain it to you but you'd have to be honest with me in wanting to know. I don't believe you do....
09 Aug 10
Thankyou for your excellent posts LemonJello.
l find it disturbing that a human being is born with the faculties for independant logical thought and yet actively chooses to ignore these options and settle for the intellectual wasteland of organised religion like the JWs that instructs its members to avoid any thought that questions the organisation in any way.
There are a great many posters on RHP that are actively religous (Christian,Muslim etc) that talk openly of questioning their beliefs. If they do this then they will be stronger for it regardless of the outcome.