"Life on earth is about timing...."

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yes, but I do not believe such a possibility exists, nor do I believe you have knowledge of such a possibility.

Read the New Testament of the Holy Bible and learn about the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo.

https://www.shroud.com/guscin.htm

Originally posted by RJHinds
Because I have inherited the characteristic quality of intelligence that allows me to know by reason and logic. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
You are being willingly ignorant again. I suggest you do more research to see where you err.

You cannot claim knowledge by reason and logic alone. All you can know from logic are tautologies, which incidentally depend on the set of rules chosen so for example, the law of the divided middle is a tautology in Classical logic, but not automatically true in intuitionist logic. Since a statement like "The Gospels are not historical" is not self-contradictory you cannot rule it out by logic alone.

This means that you need some evidence. You are on pretty dicey territory claiming there was a historical Jesus. So I do not think that you can claim that other religions are false because they do not accept the Gospels. I'm not arguing that you cannot believe other religions are false, I am arguing that you cannot know other religions are false, since that was your claim.

So either provide some evidence for the historicity of the events of the Gospels or withdraw your claim that you can know that other religions are false.

Originally posted by DeepThought
How do you know the Gospels are true? There is virtually no evidence from non-Christian sources of the historicity of those events. So how do you know your religion is true and the others are false?

It took me 2 minutes and 45 seconds to read the following. I guess I read slow. Do you have the time to actually read it yourself? You asked the questions. I'm assuming your sincerity. I don't really expect you to believe it, but I hope it at least makes some sense to you. I'd be curious to know.

"How do you know the Gospels are true?"

Really? You do live in the 21st century don't you? This is the Information Age isn't it? What rational reason can you possibly have that would cause you to believe the account of the life of Jesus, his death and subsequent resurrection is false? Give yourself a break and start believing in the only truly credible historical record known to man.

After all, look at the alternative. Since when can you trust any historical account? We've all seen how history is written and rewritten, by man, to suit his own agenda and control the masses.

Besides, there's an even better and more reliable way of knowing the truth than just guessing at it. Every word of scripture is God breathed. God cannot lie. Take God at His word and you'll see. Who else are you going to trust?

"There is virtually no evidence from non-Christian sources of the historicity of those events."

Not so! And why would there need to be? Solve the puzzle for yourself. Why allow your world to spin off into oblivion over some unsubstantiated doubts? The proof lies within the pages of God's Word. It's there for the discovering by anyone willing to unshackle themselves from preconceived biases contrary to the truth. All the bs in this forum notwithstanding.

"So how do you know your religion is true and the others are false?"

As difficult as it is for you to acknowledge this declaration, nevertheless it's true, I don't have religion. I have the only thing that matters. Faith! Faith in something you know you don't know. You think it's not true because you don't know it, but that doesn't make it false. You really need to ask yourself whether or not you are wrong, that the possibility of the existence of the faith I claim to believe is true or not.

Jesus rose from the dead. I know it like you know you exist. This faith I believe and hold in my being is from out of this world. Perhaps that's why you don't get it? You have to prove it to yourself. The bottom line is no one can prove it to you. If it could be proven, by another, then the possibility that you could be deceived would exist, which might explain a lot if you stopped to think about it!

There is a doctrine, one you may even know about, one which you will most likely reject out of hand because it's in the Bible. I could go into great detail about it, but what for? It's called the doctrine of total depravity. Bottom line is, no one can even trust themselves. We are in the dark concerning what the truth really is of ourselves. Who do you really trust in this life? Under the right conditions anyone and everyone will fail us in this life. Sure, maybe once in a while someone might even give their life to save another, but in the end we die alone. Left adrift in the unknown. Only God can save. God only has all the truth. Only God can reach down to where we live, and by the act of His sovereign will and grace reveal Himself in us. That is how I know. It's how anyone can know. It's the only way one can know the real truth.

It's only logical. You and I can't find God and know Him. God finds us. God is looking for you. When He finds you will you be there? Will you believe Him? When you do, then you will know.

Originally posted by josephw

[...]Really? You do live in the 21st century don't you? This is the Information Age isn't it? What rational reason can you possibly have that would cause you to believe the account of the life of Jesus, his death and subsequent resurrection is false? Give yourself a break and start believing in the only truly credible historical record known to man.

After all, look at the alternative. Since when can you trust any historical account? We've all seen how history is written and rewritten, by man, to suit his own agenda and control the masses.

Besides, there's an even better and more reliable way of knowing the truth than just guessing at it. Every word of scripture is God breathed. God cannot lie. Take God at His word and you'll see. Who else are you going to trust?

[...] Not so! And why would there need to be? Solve the puzzle for yourself. Why allow your world to spin off into oblivion over some unsubstantiated doubts? The proof lies within the pages of God's Word. It's there for the discovering by anyone willing to unshackle themselves from preconceived biases contrary to the truth. All the bs in this forum notwithstanding.

[...]As difficult as it is for you to acknowledge this declaration, nevertheless it's true, I don't have religion. I have the only thing that matters. Faith! Faith in something you know you don't know. You think it's not true because you don't know it, but that doesn't make it false. You really need to ask yourself whether or not you are wrong, that the possibility of the existence of the faith I claim to believe is true or not.

Jesus rose from the dead. I know it like you know you exist. This faith I believe and hold in my being is from out of this world. Perhaps that's why you don't get it? You have to prove it to yourself. The bottom line is no one can prove it to you. If it could be proven, by another, then the possibility that you could be deceived would exist, which might explain a lot if you stopped to think about it!

There is a doctrine, one you may even know about, one which you will most likely reject out of hand because it's in the Bible. I could go into great detail about it, but what for? It's called the doctrine of total depravity. Bottom line is, no one can even trust themselves. We are in the dark concerning what the truth really is of ourselves. Who do you really trust in this life? Under the right conditions anyone and everyone will fail us in this life. Sure, maybe once in a while someone might even give their life to save another, but in the end we die alone. Left adrift in the unknown. Only God can save. God only has all the truth. Only God can reach down to where we live, and by the act of His sovereign will and grace reveal Himself in us. That is how I know. It's how anyone can know. It's the only way one can know the real truth.

It's only logical. You and I can't find God and know Him. God finds us. God is looking for you. When He finds you will you be there? Will you believe Him? When you do, then you will know.

Stylistically, your monologue reminds me of Samuel Beckett's "Not I". 😉

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/video/2014/feb/03/samuel-beckett-not-i-lisa-dwan

Originally posted by josephw
It took me 2 minutes and 45 seconds to read the following. I guess I read slow. Do you have the time to actually read it yourself? You asked the questions. I'm assuming your sincerity. I don't really expect you to believe it, but I hope it at least makes some sense to you. I'd be curious to know.

[b]"How do you know the Gospels are true?"

Really? Y ...[text shortened]... you. When He finds you will you be there? Will you believe Him? When you do, then you will know.[/b]

I read your post, I see nothing that answers my questions. You've simply insisted that you are right.

Originally posted by FMF
[b][...]Really? You do live in the 21st century don't you? This is the Information Age isn't it? What rational reason can you possibly have that would cause you to believe the account of the life of Jesus, his death and subsequent resurrection is false? Give yourself a break and start believing in the only truly credible historical record known to man.

After ...[text shortened]... "Not I". 😉

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/video/2014/feb/03/samuel-beckett-not-i-lisa-dwan

I don't have an English accent! Other than that I think you nailed it. 😉

Originally posted by josephw
I don't have an English accent! Other than that I think you nailed it. 😉

I rather think it is DeepThought who has nailed it.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I read your post, I see nothing that answers my questions. You've simply insisted that you are right.

I know I'm right, and you just proved it.

You see DT, in the end whatever any one of us may say it only boils down to our own opinion.

But if God has spoken...

Originally posted by josephw
I know I'm right, and you just proved it.

You see DT, in the end whatever any one of us may say it only boils down to our own opinion.

But if God has spoken...

Do you ever contemplate how it's strange that your God figure revealed Himself in such a way that even you have to admit that the veracity of you passing on the supposed details of it just comes down to your opinion and you insisting that your opinion is right? Why would a supernatural being communicate with His followers in such an ineffective and inefficient way? You say "...it only boils down to our own opinion"... but why do you think such an important thing is left so tenuous and so unconvincing to so many people?

Originally posted by josephw
You see DT, in the end whatever any one of us may say it only boils down to our own opinion.

No, actually, it doesn't. 2+2=4 is not merely my own opinion, or if it is, then your opinion that 2+2=5 is not on the same level as my opinion.
Some opinions make sense and can be backed up with logic, evidence and the like, whereas other opinions are incoherent, nonsensical, based on wishful thinking etc.

Originally posted by FMF
Do you ever contemplate how it's strange that your God figure revealed Himself in such a way that even you have to admit that the veracity of you passing on the supposed details of it just comes down to your opinion and you insisting that your opinion is right? Why would a supernatural being communicate with His followers in such an ineffective and inefficient w ...[text shortened]... y do you think such an important thing is left so tenuous and so unconvincing to so many people?

Not my opinion that God said He has spoken.

Every word spoken by man is only man's opinion unless it is supported by God's Word. It's not my opinion that God has spoken. That God has spoken is a matter of fact, and it is only your opinion that He hasn't.

God's Word is an objective fact not reliant on anyone's opinion to the contrary. Mine or your opinion gives no veracity to the Word of God. God's Word stands and will never pass away, but we will. That I say "God's Word will never pass away" isn't my opinion, it's what God has spoken concerning His Word.

Get it?

Originally posted by twhitehead
No, actually, it doesn't. 2+2=4 is not merely my own opinion, or if it is, then your opinion that 2+2=5 is not on the same level as my opinion.
Some opinions make sense and can be backed up with logic, evidence and the like, whereas other opinions are incoherent, nonsensical, based on wishful thinking etc.

Not going to argue with that except to say you're out of context. The comment you are replying to is relevant to the context in which I said it.

Even so, you have inadvertently supported my contention. Truth is objective and not reliant on an opinion to be true. The truth is truth independent of anyone's opinion.

Originally posted by josephw
God's Word is an objective fact not reliant on anyone's opinion to the contrary.

But in your previous post you said "... in the end whatever any one of us may say it only boils down to our own opinion."

Originally posted by josephw
Truth is objective and not reliant on an opinion to be true. The truth is truth independent of anyone's opinion.

What is "true" to my neighbour is that God revealed Himself to Muhammed at the top of a mountain (or in a cave, I forget which) about 1,400 years ago. So is this "truth" a "truth" that is "independent of anyone's opinion" including yours?

Originally posted by FMF
I rather think it is DeepThought who has nailed it.

Again, it's just your opinion.

The point I'm making seems to elude you.