Mankind didn't fall

@kingdavid403 said
First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another.

The "total amount of energy and matter in the universe" was created "in the beginning" before there was even space for it to occupy. Space was created too.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

God created everything, including science. What we know of science, if it contradicts creation, is false science.

Frankly, I'm not sure what you're trying to say in your post.

@kingdavid403 said
That's an opinion some have; however, we do know that the universe is constantly growing; with new stars and planets being created all the time. My point was, that our beings are made of energy.

Man is made of more than just matter.

God created matter, then made the human frame from the dust, and God breathed life into the body.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

@josephw said

God created everything, including science. What we know of science, if it contradicts creation, is false science.

Man created God. (Well, the idea of Him at least).

Man continues to learn about science.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Which is precisely why the universal is eternal. Matter has always existed in one form or another.

You don’t know that, having something made with those properties could also be a cause. You assume!

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Man created God. (Well, the idea of Him at least).

Man continues to learn about science.

Another statement of faith.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Man created God. (Well, the idea of Him at least).

Man continues to learn about science.

Man invented the idea that God doesn't exist.

"Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

Man continues to learn about God > With that I thought, does science have limits? Is there a limit to what science can learn of the universe? Is science limited by the finiteness of energy and matter? Is all matter and energy limited by the nature of its material existence to a finite expression of its properties throughout the known universe? (That seems a reasonable assumption given the idea that all matter and energy already exists - therefore a limit to its scientific aspects would also)

If the answer is yes to those questions, then faith in science is bound to a finality of thought and reason.

But if no, then science will never achieve to provide answers for all time and eternity, just the dilemma of endless theoretical speculation.

@josephw said
Man invented the idea that God doesn't exist.

"Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not."

Man continues to learn about God > With that I thought, does science have limits? Is there a limit to what science can learn of the universe? Is science limited by the finiteness of energy and matter? Is all matter and energy limited by the ...[text shortened]... e to provide answers for all time and eternity, just the dilemma of endless theoretical speculation.

You cannot evidence god to me therefore he is a figment of your imagination.

@executioner-brand said
You cannot evidence god to me therefore he is a figment of your imagination.

You can reject everything shown to you because your imagination suggest that there is no God. Not much of an argument that cuts both ways.

@josephw said
The "total amount of energy and matter in the universe" was created "in the beginning" before there was even space for it to occupy. Space was created too.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

God created everything, including science. What we know of science, if it contradicts creation, is false science.

Frankly, I'm not sure what you're trying to say in your post.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
Yes, I know.
God created everything, including science. What we know of science, if it contradicts creation, is false science.
I agree; mostly.

Frankly, I'm not sure what you're trying to say in your post.
Ummm.... It's the First Law of Thermodynamics....
First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another.

@josephw said
Man is made of more than just matter.

God created matter, then made the human frame from the dust, and God breathed life into the body.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Man is made of more than just matter.
Good, you're progressing.
God created matter, then made the human frame from the dust, and God breathed life into the body.
Yes.
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Yes, "The Breath of Life" "Living Soul," Amen! 🙂

@executioner-brand said
You cannot evidence god to me therefore he is a figment of your imagination.

Your imagination disallows the evidence which is the existence of everything.

The atheist says, "no no no, everything already existed, therefore everything wasn't created".

The atheist knows that for certain, even though he doesn't know that for certain.

@kingdavid403 said
First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another.

When did we learn that? 6th grade? 8th?

You do realize that law is false don't you?

If, as the first law says, 'energy can be changed, but not created or destroyed', then God created a rock to heavy for him to lift.

That law applies to man, not God.

As far as the constancy of energy and matter is concerned, that idea doesn't apply to God either. God is the God of science. God is not bound by the laws he created to sustain man.

And one other thing. Energy and matter are constant with regards to creation, they had a beginning. They did not exist, and then they did upon their creation. And all of this material universe will be made to cease to exist, and then God will create "a new heaven and a new earth". Unmarred by sin.

@josephw said
Man invented the idea that God doesn't exist.

The default position was the nonexistence of gods. They only came into being (not literally) when men created them to explain the mysteries of the universe and lessen the blow of mortality.

@kingdavid403 said
Man is made of more than just matter.
Good, you're progressing.
God created matter, then made the human frame from the dust, and God breathed life into the body.
Yes.
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Yes, "The Breath of Life" "Living Soul," Amen! 🙂

Oh yeah! I'm progressing, "...toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus", who btw, both created and sustains the universe.

Otherwise I'd be dead. 🙂

@josephw said
Your imagination disallows the evidence which is the existence of everything.

The atheist says, "no no no, everything already existed, therefore everything wasn't created".

The atheist knows that for certain, even though he doesn't know that for certain.

Doesn't the existence of everything also evidence the existence of Brahma?

Now, you'll say this certainly isn't true, even though you don't know this for certain.