Spirituality
11 May 10
11 Jul 10
Originally posted by r99pawn77Then there are professional scientific studies on the power of prayer, on ESP and various kinds of supernatural phenomena.
re "dearth of evidence" -
that is really not so. This is just a popular belief that has moved from backroom gossip to mainstream idea.
Well, the nature of inquiry, generally, is to make some observations, postulate an idea or theorem and then initiate some proof. Then, once a theory is established, amend the theory according to the reception of new ...[text shortened]... he supernatural, does not seem to fit into a professional methodology of inquiry.
I'd like to see them.
Have you heard of the 'The One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge' set up by the James Randi Edcuational Fund? 13yrs later, no ones got past the preliminary stage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation#The_One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge
11 Jul 10
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI never denied that having an influence of any one particular religion does not influence one to adopt a certain religion, rather, I am only saying that for someone to continue on in that religion there must be relavence for it in their lives.
How do you explain the worldwide distribution of religions?
Are Anglos just spiritually smarter than everyone else such that they choose the "right" religion more often than everyone else?
If it's about choice, how come so many Christian parents strongly value providing a heavily Christian-influenced environment for their children?
11 Jul 10
Originally posted by avalanchethecatI recommend letting adherents of different faiths first argue it out among themselves, debating the relative merits of their respectively indubitable revelations; and only when they have arrived at a satisfactory consensus, to engage in debate with the agnostics and atheists.
Given the dearth of evidence supporting any of the various flavours of religion available, what makes believers choose one sort over another?
11 Jul 10
1 edit
here's one reference:
Proof that Prayer Works
http://1stholistic.com/Prayer/hol_prayer_proof.htm
The Russians did elaborate studies on the validity of ESP...and probably other supernatural things as well.
Hypnotism, of course, as mention, has significant documentation in the professional scientific literature.
A bit of skepticism is very healthy. But eventually doubt just becomes an obsession.
Yes, there do exist fully professional scientific studies that verify the validity of prayer and various supernatural things.
I am aware of studies to debunk. But one must understand...those are studies done with a directed agenda. Those studies are not done to assess the truth, those studies are done to disprove things. Science is not immune to corruption, manipulated statistics and all sorts of things to prove an end.
These challenges to psychics - how do you know if they did meet real psychics and merely rejected them to skew the results?
Police agencies have been using psychics for decades (and kings for thousands of years).
Do you really think the FBI would hire some hippie loon if these things did not produce results?????
11 Jul 10
Originally posted by r99pawn77Do you really think the FBI would hire some hippie loon if these things did not produce results?????
here's one reference:
Proof that Prayer Works
http://1stholistic.com/Prayer/hol_prayer_proof.htm
The Russians did elaborate studies on the validity of ESP...and probably other supernatural things as well.
Hypnotism, of course, as mention, has significant documentation in the professional scientific literature.
A bit of skepticism is very hea ...[text shortened]... u really think the FBI would hire some hippie loon if these things did not produce results?????
"We discovered that the work of the psychics was not just ludicrous and laughable. it was sinister and evil....None of it ever led anywhere except to despair and disappointment, misery and confusion." --John Tate, father of Genette Tate who disappeared in 1978
http://www.skepdic.com/psychdet.html
Yes, there do exist fully professional scientific studies that verify the validity of prayer and various supernatural things.
Let's have a peek then, don't keep them to yourself..
As i pointed out above The One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge has been in place for 13yrs now. Over 1,000 people have had a go, and yet no one; as of yet, has made it past the preliminary stage.
Hypnotism, of course, as mention, has significant documentation in the professional scientific literature.
Very true, but i wouldn't class hypnotism as 'paranormal'.
As for your proof of prayer in your link -
Here's a link to a critique of Dr. Randolph Byrds experiment.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/gary_posner/godccu.html
Here's a link to the latest and largest study ever done on intercessory prayer.
http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS0002870305006496/abstract
I'll paste the conclusion for you (and anybody else who's reading).
Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.
Looks like they couldn't handle the pressure.
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by karoly aczelYou can have different personalities/dispositions and still try and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I’m not too sure I understand the question. If you’re asking if I feel we should all be robots and act the same, my answer is of course not. Our different personalities make each of us unique. If you’re asking if I feel the world would be a better place if everyone on this earth followed the teachings of Jesus Christ, then my answer would be of course I do.
ok.
So do you think everyone should live the same according to Jesus' way or do you allow for different personalities,dispositions?
I just have this nagging feeling that christians all want to be the same, which we are clearly not. I'm not talking good and bad. More like 'outgoing' and reclusive, for example.
Do you worship Jesus? If so, how so?
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by Proper KnobWell, since you’re discussing prayer, here is a story, which happened to my family. We had just brought a puppy home from the pound a few months ago. She was a good puppy, although when the pound found her, she was favoring her front leg. They placed a cast on it and that is how we took her home – cast and all.
[b]Do you really think the FBI would hire some hippie loon if these things did not produce results?????
[i]"We discovered that the work of the psychics was not just ludicrous and laughable. it was sinister and evil....None of it ever led anywhere except to despair and disappointment, misery and confusion." --John Tate, father of Genette Tate who d ...[text shortened]... her incidence of complications.[/b]
Looks like they couldn't handle the pressure.[/b]
We ended up taking her to the Vet who took X-rays. The Vet informed us her shoulder is dislocated and will need to be operated on to fix. The operation is going to cost $1500. With a dog, you can’t just pop her shoulder back into place like you can a human apparently. We made an appointment to take her back a week later. During that week, we knelt down in prayer (my wife, son and I). All three of us prayed that the puppy’s shoulder will heal and she would not need surgery. We took her back to the Vet a week later and he checked her shoulder again. The Vet Dr then informed us, her shoulder is healing on it’s own and she will not need surgery.
It has been months now and our puppy’s shoulder is completely healed, although it didn’t take nearly that long. Her shoulder healed quickly. She is running around and playing like any other puppy would. There is no indication her shoulder was ever dislocated. She is just fine.
I understand many who read this are just going to say…coincidence. Regardless if you believe in prayer or not, this could be just a feel good story if you want to look at it that way.
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by gtbiking4lifeSo we agree.
You can have different personalities/dispositions and still try and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I’m not too sure I understand the question. If you’re asking if I feel we should all be robots and act the same, my answer is of course not. Our different personalities make each of us unique. If you’re asking if I feel the world would be a better ...[text shortened]... ne on this earth followed the teachings of Jesus Christ, then my answer would be of course I do.
No robots. Christ said some cool stuff which could improve humanity.
how is believing in christ better than being a humanitarian? (thats if you think it is) thnx
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by gtbiking4lifeYes, I would say coincidence. If the shoulder didn't heal, then it wouldn't be agood story would it? Then you would forget all about it.
Well, since you’re discussing prayer, here is a story, which happened to my family. We had just brought a puppy home from the pound a few months ago. She was a good puppy, although when the pound found her, she was favoring her front leg. They placed a cast on it and that is how we took her home – cast and all.
We ended up taking her to the Vet who ...[text shortened]... lieve in prayer or not, this could be just a feel good story if you want to look at it that way.
But everything a paryers showed result, then you remember it.
I myself use a coin. When ever I need guidance, I flip the coin. If later it turned out to be a good choice I write about it in our little coin-flipping cult, and every one chant "The Coin, The Coin!". When it doesn't turn out to be a good choice, we just do nothing about it. The coin will guide us, and we remember only those times it advice is correctly. The rest we just forget about.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasIt's a good thing I don't believe in flipping coins then.
Yes, I would say coincidence. If the shoulder didn't heal, then it wouldn't be agood story would it? Then you would forget all about it.
But everything a paryers showed result, then you remember it.
I myself use a coin. When ever I need guidance, I flip the coin. If later it turned out to be a good choice I write about it in our little coin-flipping c ...[text shortened]... us, and we remember only those times it advice is correctly. The rest we just forget about.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by Proper KnobThe paranormal, has nothing whatsoever, to do with the spiritual.
[b]Do you really think the FBI would hire some hippie loon if these things did not produce results?????
[i]"We discovered that the work of the psychics was not just ludicrous and laughable. it was sinister and evil....None of it ever led anywhere except to despair and disappointment, misery and confusion." --John Tate, father of Genette Tate who d ...[text shortened]... her incidence of complications.[/b]
Looks like they couldn't handle the pressure.[/b]
The paranormal, is a activity of mind only.
Richard has it wrong again, because he is an envious rascal, who probably had his willy willy played with by a preist, and now hates god.
Richard Dawkins, constantly brings up examples of beliefs of religious people, to show how silly it all is, and those erroneous beliefs are silly.
On the other hand spirituality has nothing to do with those silly beliefs, but it is the science of life/god.
Richard Dawkins gloats in pride, when he defeats some silly religious fanatic, but even a child can do that.
It is because of all the religious erroneous belief systems, that have made the subject of god a point of ridicule.
If Richard Dawkins was put up against a person of spiritual background, instead of the religious background, he would be sqashed like a bug, oops didnt mean to offend his ancestor.
vishva
13 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyThat would seem to argue against the possibility that truth value is important in a religions longevity. If a religions claims are true but have no relevance, it will not keep its adherents whereas a religions whose claims are false but relevant will maintain its adherents.
I never denied that having an influence of any one particular religion does not influence one to adopt a certain religion, rather, I am only saying that for someone to continue on in that religion there must be relavence for it in their lives.
13 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by vishvahetuWhat on earth are you talking about?
The paranormal, has nothing whatsoever, to do with the spiritual.
The paranormal, is a activity of mind only.
Richard has it wrong again, because he is an envious rascal, who probably had his willy willy played with by a preist, and now hates god.
Richard Dawkins, constantly brings up examples of beliefs of religious people, to show how silly it ...[text shortened]... us background, he would be sqashed like a bug, oops didnt mean to offend his ancestor.
vishva