Spirituality
11 May 10
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasTwo more stories, which are of interest in this discussion: I had to go to the emergency room one day due to chest pains. The hospital ran every test on me and could not find what was causing them. I knelt down in prayer that night (I was admitted) and my wife and I prayed that what ever was causing these great pains, the Doctors would find out what it was. The next morning, the Doctor came in and said, I just wanted to schedule you to have a test redone. I just needed to make sure there was nothing there. The test was redone and this time they found out it was my Gall Bladder (Stones) causing me pain. The Dr couldn’t explain why they did not show up last time. I had my Gall bladder removed and have had no problems since.
Yes, I would say coincidence. If the shoulder didn't heal, then it wouldn't be agood story would it? Then you would forget all about it.
But everything a paryers showed result, then you remember it.
I myself use a coin. When ever I need guidance, I flip the coin. If later it turned out to be a good choice I write about it in our little coin-flipping c ...[text shortened]... us, and we remember only those times it advice is correctly. The rest we just forget about.
My wife and I used to foster parents. We had a young girl around 3 in our home who was having nightmares every night. My wife and I knelt down in prayer for these nightmares to stop for this girl. She no longer had any more nightmares.
The point I’m making is that if I were to flip a coin, there would by a 50% chance, maybe. I have been praying now for 20 years and can say with confidence, there has been a 100% my prayers have been answered for what was best for my family. I don’t believe a coin would have had that same effect.
That is what I meant when I said: “It’s a good thing I don’t believe in flipping coins”. I do believe in prayer though. Prayer has worked in my life.
I’m aware that many are going to scream “Coincidences, all of them!” and I’m good with that.
13 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by gtbiking4lifeMaybe you could say a little prayer and ask God to give me guidance in winning the lottery this weekend. I promise to give you 10%, and also 10% of my winnings to a charity of your choice.
Two more stories, which are of interest in this discussion: I had to go to the emergency room one day due to chest pains. The hospital ran every test on me and could not find what was causing them. I knelt down in prayer that night (I was admitted) and my wife and I prayed that what ever was causing these great pains, the Doctors would find out what it ...[text shortened]...
I’m aware that many are going to scream “Coincidences, all of them!” and I’m good with that.
Deal?!
Or maybe you could pray and ask God to reveal the cure for cancer to me in a dream tonight? We could end millions of peoples suffering worldwide in an instant. That would be cool.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by gtbiking4lifeAnd I can assure you that if you believed in flipping coins it would have been just as effective.
The point I’m making is that if I were to flip a coin, there would by a 50% chance, maybe. I have been praying now for 20 years and can say with confidence, there has been a 100% my prayers have been answered for what was best for my family. I don’t believe a coin would have had that same effect.
I notice that you did not say 100% of your prayers had been answered, but rather that the outcome was 'best for your family'. I can bet that you did not know what was 'best for your family' until after the prayer was or was not answered.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by Proper KnobEither:
Or maybe you could pray and ask God to reveal the cure for cancer to me in a dream tonight? We could end millions of peoples suffering worldwide in an instant. That would be cool.
1. Nobody in his family has cancer.
2. The family member was or will be cured after much prayer and chemotherapy.
3. That family member dying of cancer is whats best for his family.
I notice in several of his stories he has so little faith in prayer that instead of relying on prayer he goes to see the doctor.
13 Jul 10
There was actually an scientific experiment of the effect of prayers.
A large group of cancer patients was cut in half. One half (A) was prayed over in the name of God. The other half (R) was not prayed over and was used as a reference group. None of the patients knew what group they belonged of.
If the mortality group (A) lived longer than the reference group (R), then it could be shown that prayers worked.
However, the two groups lived as long as the othere, no difference was discovered. This scientific experiment showed clearly that prayers had no effect of cancer.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by Proper Knobit is not widely discussed publicly, but all casinos do employ psychics to prevent other psychics from stealing from them.
Maybe you could say a little prayer and ask God to give me guidance in winning the lottery this weekend. I promise to give you 10%, and also 10% of my winnings to a charity of your choice.
Deal?!
Or maybe you could pray and ask God to reveal the cure for cancer to me in a dream tonight? We could end millions of peoples suffering worldwide in an instant. That would be cool.
many people have used some level of psychic ability to win at gambling.
and any professional gambler will tell you that if you have a "feel" for it, that you are going to win...you absolutely have to listen to it. Which is a subtle recognition, by the body of professional gambling, that psychic phenomena is real.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasthere have been many studies...and some have yielded the opposite result.
There was actually an scientific experiment of the effect of prayers.
A large group of cancer patients was cut in half. One half (A) was prayed over in the name of God. The other half (R) was not prayed over and was used as a reference group. None of the patients knew what group they belonged of.
If the mortality group (A) lived longer than the refer ...[text shortened]... was discovered. This scientific experiment showed clearly that prayers had no effect of cancer.
There was a big one by Johns Hopkins and heart patients and it did indeed yield results that people prayed over did far better than those who weren't.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasGod does answer prayers.
And I'm glad that I don't hear voices from inside my head, and call it an answer from a god.
God doesn't answer prayers. I know. I've tried.
and I am sure he answered yours. But you have to develop the discipline and the language to understand that world.
if you enter deeply into prayer practice, meditation and everything associated with the spiritual life...with real intent, intensity, devotion and purpose...
then you will know that God answers prayers.
Swami Brahmananda, a Hindu saint, once said to go out and work hard on the life of inner prayer and meditation. And if it did not work in 4 years, come back and slap his face.
But no one wants to do that. No one wants to pray and meditate even 30 minutes daily.
It takes 8 years of study to become a doctor. Why would it take less effort to develop real spiritual insight??
Devote 5 hours a day to spiritual disciplines for even three years...and then come back and say it doesn't work.
Why should God cater to our lethargy? He doesn't. If you don't work for His Grace, you are not going to be aware of His presence in your life.
You say God doesn't answer prayers. But you have to know the language.
The day you prayed about some worry...maybe during that day you felt a little peace that you hadn't had before. But you never associated it with the prayer hours before. Or maybe some old friend called you to comfort you. But you never made the connection.
Prayers are always answered. If you want to part the Red Sea...then, like Moses, you can live in the wilderness near to death for 10 or 20 years of life threatening austerity. Then you get the grace a saint gets. Otherwise, we get small things from prayer, like a bit of mood elevation, an inspiring thought.
I will say directly that I have personally witnessed hundreds of my own prayers be answered. And I have testimony from many others that many of their prayers have been answered. But you have to give it time. You have to enter that world and work it.
What you are saying is the chess equivalent of a kid demanding to be a grandmaster immediately - the very first time he even learns that there is a game called chess.
There is a process to the spiritual life. If you engage it, it yields results, slowly, over time.... and based on the degree of effort.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by r99pawn77I googled some, but I didn't find anything about the experiment. Can you give me a ref on that? Just so I can see that it was a scientific experiment, or not. I think not. But you can convince me of the opposite. But I need a link.
there have been many studies...and some have yielded the opposite result.
There was a big one by Johns Hopkins and heart patients and it did indeed yield results that people prayed over did far better than those who weren't.
If the experiment really was a scientific one, then it should be easy to copy the result to get the same result. Has this been done? Do you have another link for this too?
I think it's a fake experiment. Convince me it's not.