Moses & Child Sexual Slavery (Bible Study)

Originally posted by Maustrauser
Where in these passages, does God condemn them for these actions? If the Bible is the word of God then I would expect God to condemn the actions of the Men of Benjamin. But GOD DOES NOT condemn this behaviour.

Where does it show that God condones their actions. Judges is not the place to look to see what God condones of condemns. It is a historical narrative.

You need to look in the books where God clearly gives commands of law to see what He condemns. A rapist were stoned, as were adulterers, and children who where willfully abusive to their parents. That is harsh, no doubt about it. But there is not place that God condones rape, child abuse, murder, etc. He does order specific people killed in war, and for crimes, including murder and rape.

Originally posted by Coletti
Where does it show that God condones their actions. Judges is not the place to look to see what God condones of condemns. It is a historical narrative.

You need to look in the books where God clearly gives commands of law to see what He condemns. A rapist were stoned, as were adulterers, and children who where willfully abusive to their parents. Tha ...[text shortened]... r, etc. He does order specific people killed in war, and for crimes, including murder and rape.

Aggressive war is murder. Killing innocents civilians is murder. Sticking a sword in a baby is murder. Forcing young girls to have sex with the murderers of their families is rape. Which didn't the Monster God of the OT condone?

He also had 42 youths mauled to death by bears for calling a guy "baldy". II Kings 2: 23-25. A little psycho, ain't he?

Originally posted by Coletti
Where does it show that God condones their actions. Judges is not the place to look to see what God condones of condemns. It is a historical narrative.

You need to look in the books where God clearly gives commands of law to see what He condemns. A rapist were stoned, as were adulterers, and children who where willfully abusive to their parents. Tha ...[text shortened]... r, etc. He does order specific people killed in war, and for crimes, including murder and rape.

Psalms 137:9.
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones

Joshua 11:21-23
Genocide?

Jeremiah 25:8-11 Complete and utter destruction.

These quotes not taken from the book judges as per your request

Originally posted by Nyxie
Psalms 137:9.
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones

Joshua 11:21-23
Genocide?

Jeremiah 25:8-11 Complete and utter destruction.

These quotes not taken from the book judges as per your request

Yeah yeah. The Bible has lots of nasty things in it. Tell me something new. Are you actually finding these things out for yourself or are you copying them from another web site.

Something tells me you aren't looking this references up on your own because most are taken out of context. It's like you don't have any independent thoughts. I don't see you pouring through your Bible and asking hard questions.

No1 has his list memorized I think, he should since he keeps repeating the same ones over and over.

Originally posted by Coletti
Yeah yeah. The Bible has lots of nasty things in it. Tell me something new. Are you actually finding these things out for yourself or are you copying them from another web site.

Something tells me you aren't looking this references up on your own because most are taken out of context. It's like you don't have any independent thoughts. I don't ...[text shortened]... as his list memorized I think, he should since he keeps repeating the same ones over and over.

Of course I'm plageurizing from the bible itself, I have given the relevant verses with each post so that you may look them up for yourself.

And yes I agree the bible is full of all kinds of very nasty things. That's the whole point of my argument here. You make it sound like none of it happened. The old testament is very very bloody. Rape murder, human sacrifice, genocide, child abuse, all of these things are listed in the old testament.

These things were done by the followers of God and by their enemies. They all seemed very violent back then.

What would you like to debate with me that I may show you I have an original thought. What part of the bible would be ok to talk about? Which questions do you want to ask and or have me answer?

I always seem to get confused when I'm told that this part of the Bible is different then this other part. Here it says no murder, but here murders are committed. There are places where God says thou shall not kill, then commands that people be killed for some very minute crimes.

What would it take to get you to admit that rape and murder were commited by the ancient isrealites, if I'm not allowed to use the Bible as a reference?

Nyxie

Originally posted by Coletti
Yeah yeah. The Bible has lots of nasty things in it. Tell me something new. Are you actually finding these things out for yourself or are you copying them from another web site.

Something tells me you aren't looking this references up on your own because most are taken out of context. It's like you don't have any independent thoughts. I don't ...[text shortened]... as his list memorized I think, he should since he keeps repeating the same ones over and over.

Rather than question Nyxie's research practices, perhaps it would be prudent to attempt to explain why the old testament seems to make God look like the biggest jerk since Ty Cobb.

I have experienced God in my life and those experiences had very little to do with genocide, sexual slavery, shaving heads, walking a fine line between rape and sex, turning people into salt or anything having to do with sociopathic behavior.

Oh, better yet, don't try to explain it and just accept the idea that A) We cannot seem to understand the meaning of some of the old testament stories. B) Many of the stories in the old testament are ficticious or overly 'embellished'. C) God really is a giant jerk in spite of whatever personal experiences some of us may have had.

I think if we Christians simply accept the idea that the old testament is pretty darn lame we could move on and talk about something of consequence.

TheSkipper

Originally posted by Nyxie
Of course I'm plageurizing from the bible itself, I have given the relevant verses with each post so that you may look them up for yourself.

And yes I agree the bible is full of all kinds of very nasty things. That's the whole point of my argument here. You make it sound like none of it happened. The old testament is very very bloody. Rape murder, human ...[text shortened]... ommited by the ancient isrealites, if I'm not allowed to use the Bible as a reference?

Nyxie

I have never denied that rapes and murders have happened - or that they where not recorded in the Bible. I think I have made that clear. But your references have not shown that God prescribes using children as sex slaves, or rape, or murder. All they show is they have occurred. You need to figure out what your point is. If it is just to say thay some bad people have done bad things in the Bible then I agree. There's no argument.

Originally posted by TheSkipper
Rather than question Nyxie's research practices, perhaps it would be prudent to attempt to explain why the old testament seems to make God look like the biggest jerk since Ty Cobb.

I have experienced God in my life and those experiences had very little to do with genocide, sexual slavery, shaving heads, walking a fine line between rape and sex, turnin ...[text shortened]... ment is pretty darn lame we could move on and talk about something of consequence.

TheSkipper

Thank you for a pleasant post. You have to admit that the old testament is a rather intense read. I read the New testament as a child, and as I aged I read the old testament. I was horrified about the things I read in it. To put it simply, I was'nt in sunday school anymore.

There are so many things listed that it just defies reason. I have a hard time combining the jesus of the new testament with the God of the ancient isrealites.

I always go back to that quote from Jesus in the book of Mathew concerning ancient Moses law : Because your hearts were hard.

It makes me think....

Originally posted by Coletti
I have never denied that rapes and murders have happened - or that they where not recorded in the Bible. I think I have made that clear. But your references have not shown that God prescribes using children as sex slaves, or rape, or murder. All they show is they have occurred. You need to figure out what your point is. If it is just to say thay some bad people have done bad things in the Bible then I agree. There's no argument.

My point was that these people were the followers of God.

It was stated that NO1 had an anti jewish agenda because he stated that they had done these things. It was asked that references be given, and I provided them.

Originally posted by Coletti
I have never denied that rapes and murders have happened - or that they where not recorded in the Bible. I think I have made that clear. But your references have not shown that God prescribes using children as sex slaves, or rape, or murder. All they show is they have occurred. You need to figure out what your point is. If it is just to say thay some bad people have done bad things in the Bible then I agree. There's no argument.

These are blatant lies. We have shown in numerous references to the OT where God COMMANDS the murder of captives and civilians (including infants) and divvies up the spoils of war, including young virgins, to the "heroic" Israelites. The OT is explicit on these points. Either the OT is false or your God is a monster by any human standards of morality. Pick one, Coletti, but those are the only options available.

Originally posted by Nyxie
Thank you for a pleasant post. You have to admit that the old testament is a rather intense read. I read the New testament as a child, and as I aged I read the old testament. I was horrified about the things I read in it. To put it simply, I was'nt in sunday school anymore.

There are so many things listed that it just defies reason. I have a hard time com ...[text shortened]... of Mathew concerning ancient Moses law : Because your hearts were hard.

It makes me think....

That's one of the problems with Sunday school is we tend to gloss over the harsh things that are in the Bible. Incest, murder, slavery, whole-sale slaughters, chopping up people - they don't tell you about those things in Sunday school. And that a shame. It shouldn't be a shock when you read these things. God is not some cuddly toy purple-dinosaur on PBS. And when Christians only describe God in gentle terms - they are misrepresenting the God of the Bible. And the NT can not be fully understood without the OT.

Originally posted by Coletti
That's one of the problems with Sunday school is we tend to gloss over the harsh things that are in the Bible. Incest, murder, slavery, whole-sale slaughters, chopping up people - they don't tell you about those things in Sunday school. And that a shame. It shouldn't be a shock when you read these things. God is not some cuddly toy purple-dinosaur on ...[text shortened]... misrepresenting the God of the Bible. And the NT can not be fully understood without the OT.

At least we can agree on this.

Nyxie

Originally posted by Coletti
That's one of the problems with Sunday school is we tend to gloss over the harsh things that are in the Bible. Incest, murder, slavery, whole-sale slaughters, chopping up people - they don't tell you about those things in Sunday school. ...[text shortened]... Bible. And the NT can not be fully understood without the OT.

Your hateful God is only a reflection of your loathing for your fellow human beings. I'll take a Supreme Being like Barney (even if he is really annoying) over a mass child murderer and young girl raper any day. May Thor have mercy on you.

Originally posted by Coletti
Where does it show that God condones their actions.

#1 cited II Kings 2:23-24 (I am sure he recalls my citing it and never getting a fulfilling
response).

In it, as you will read, Elisha curses children in the name of the Lord (for calling him
'baldy'😉. In response, God calls two she-bears to maul 42 children.

How do you explain this passage (I've offered my explanation many times, so I will
spare you)?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
#1 cited II Kings 2:23-24 (I am sure he recalls my citing it and never getting a fulfilling
response).

In it, as you will read, Elisha curses children in the name of the Lord (for calling him
'baldy'😉. In response, God calls two she-bears to maul 42 children.

How do you explain this passage (I've offered my explanation many times, so I will
spare you)?

Nemesio

It's an interesting reference, especially that Elisha "cursed them in the name of the Lord." I wonder if the number itself is significant.

At first reading, I can't say what the implications are. There may be several ways of looking at it - and I don't know which is best. It's not clear from the verses. Why female bears? Why so many kids? Were these really small kids, teenagers, spiritually immature? Were they referring to Elijah when the mocked him and told him to "Go up." Was calling him bald a minor ridicule, are a major insult? Where were the parents? Mocking your elders is a serous offense, mocking a prophet of God would seem to double the offense. Children we stoned for cursing there parents - so this in not inconsistent.

I would like to figure out what the verses are telling us. I think this one is more then a record of the events.

I have more questions than answers. I don't see a clear answer, but I am sure there is some "meaning behind the madness."