24 Feb 10
1 edit
Originally posted by TerrierJackyes but you are ignoring the details, in India, marriage is arranged through parents, the prospective partners have not engaged in pre marital sex nor cohabitation, yet they remain committed. whereas you Noobs in the United states and Europe, through your new morality and liberalism have the highest divorce rates anywhere in the known world? proclaim that from your mountain tops if you shall! old Nietzsche was a pure Noob!
Has it ever occurred to you that this kind of serial monogamy is actually the 'natural' way? It is what people do when they ignore commandments from the mountaintops.
24 Feb 10
3 edits
Originally posted by Proper Knobwoooah the old social stigma routine, hardly convincing, for much has been done in common culture to de stigmatise divorce and separation. Why can you not face the facts that persons are simply more committed. A life partner, really does mean, a life partner.
The simple answer is that divorce in India is a taboo subject. To get divorced would make someone a social outcast.
Consider this statistic.
As many as 70 per cent of married women in India between the age of 15 and 49 are victims of beating, rape or coerced sex, the United Nation Population Fund report said.
http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=56501
That'll be your reason.
statistics and reports prove otherwise despite your assertions of ludicrous,
“The overall association between premarital cohabitation and subsequent marital stability is striking,” states a report by the National Bureau of Economic Research in Cambridge, Massachusetts. “The dissolution rates of women who cohabit premaritally with their future spouse are, on average, nearly 80 percent higher than the rates of those who don’t.” The study included 4,996 Swedish women between 20 and 44 years of age, some of whom had lived with their mates before marriage and some of whom had not. Sweden’s rate of cohabitation before marriage is three times that of the United States. “It appears that people who cohabit premaritally are less committed to the institution and are more inclined to divorce than people who don’t live together,” said Neil Bennett, one of the report’s authors.
24 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLet me get this straight.
woooah the old social stigma routine, hardly convincing, for much has been done in common culture to de stigmatise divorce and separation. Why can you not face the facts that persons are simply more committed. A life partner, really does mean, a life partner.
statistics and reports prove otherwise despite your assertions of ludicrous,
“The o ...[text shortened]... to divorce than people who don’t live together,” said Neil Bennett, one of the report’s authors.
You've admitted that reading an article about the abuse suffered by women and children in India almost brought you to tears. And now you're holding up India as the champion of family values!!!
Gimme a break.
Two questions you haven't answered of mine.
Did you suffer any from any of the so called dangers whilst you were engaging in pre marital sex?
US stats for abstinence compared to sex education?
24 Feb 10
Look guys, i just want you to be happy. Really i do. What is wrong with marriage? If you love the girl, why not marry her? You get to have a really good time, dancing and jigging to the sound of the fiddle, she gets to be a bride, all the ladies get to dress up. Its a beautiful and cultural thing. I realise that i have no place dictating to you what you do, this is not my intent, its just a suggestion.
24 Feb 10
2 edits
Originally posted by Proper Knobits was not so much the abuse, buy the human trafficking that i referred to. perhaps i did not make this clear. Other reports have also shown the correlation between cohabitation and lack of commitment, its beyond dispute.
Let me get this straight.
You've admitted that reading an article about the abuse suffered by women and children in India almost brought you to tears. And now you're holding up India as the champion of family values!!!
Gimme a break.
Two questions you haven't answered of mine.
Did you suffer any from any of the so called dangers whilst you were engaging in pre marital sex?
US stats for abstinence compared to sex education?
actually it seemed to me that everyone in the world was having sex except for me. Before marriage i lived in student accommodation, and if the trombonist was not bonking away to the sound of Miles Davis, the philosophy student next door was. I had a few sexual experiences prior to marriage but i never co habited with anyone, therefore i was almost a virgin, not quite, but almost. 🙂 i have other 'baggage', that i need to deal with, completely unrelated and not for public consumption.
24 Feb 10
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI am happy thanks. I hope you are also.
Look guys, i just want you to be happy. Really i do. What is wrong with marriage? If you love the girl, why not marry her? You get to have a really good time, dancing and jigging to the sound of the fiddle, she gets to be a bride, all the ladies get to dress up. Its a beautiful and cultural thing. I realise that i have no place dictating to you what you do, this is not my intent, its just a suggestion.
Nobody said there is anything 'wrong' with marriage, far from it. But i will get married to whom and when i choose, nobody else (apart from my partner of course).
The issue here is of pre marital sex and the so called 'dangers' associated with it. You have admitted to having sex before marriage, and by your continual failures to answer my question i'm assuming you didn't succmb to any of these dangers. Why? Because i guess you were and adult and were sexually educated.
Some people may wish to remain 'pure', for want of a better word, until they meet the right person. Fine i have no problem with that, but the large majority of people are going to have sex before they are married, and no amount of abstinence teaching and scare stories from the 'magic mystery man' are going to change peoples mind. It's part of our nature of being alive.
The question remains how to deal with this scenario. As i pointed out earlier there is overwhelming evidence that when abstinence programs replaced sex education programs in US schools, teenage pregnancy rates began to rise. It doesn't work. Countries that have a more education based attitude towards sex have lower teenage pregnancy and abortion rates.
Gotta run.
24 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat psychological effects? Methinks the whole thing is related with the axiom "Know Yourself". It seems to me a 14 years old girl/ boy has to know what’s going on with her/ himself, with her/ his body and her/ his feelings, s/he needs to feel balanced and s/he needs to know that her/ his parents are there to support her/ him in full. Once the girl/ boy is balanced s/he can decide on her/ his own how s/he has to proceed whenever s/he feels in love. In this case what are the dangers that are caused because of premarital sex?
see India above for the refutation. secondly we have not even touched upon the psychological effects, for only recently i was reading an article which stated that those girls who engage in it, may be more inclined towards depression and other negative feelings than those who do not, directly associated with their experience, but i cannot find it at present. Why is it to be preferred to than marriage?
Furthernore, I do not see marriage per se as the ... final destination although I enjoy my marriage to my beloved Maria to the hilt and I feel perfectly balanced; marriage suits me, however methinks people should be free to do their thing once they do not cause harm -and this means that marriage could probably be out of order for other people. And I think that the people should be free to do whatever they please in their bedroom regardless if they are married to each other or not.
There are married couples who suddenly find themselves separated from each other because of any reason one can imagine, or together they remain because they love and respect each other or because there is some other strong link that keeps them together etc. Also I am aware of people that they enjoy their lifes happily with their mate without being married, and couples that they are in misery although they are married. So what?
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24 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieJust because people don't get divorced doesn't mean they are happy. In fact most marriages are based on a mutual loathing. Sometimes divorce is better than statyng together.
putting the blinkers on? clearly you have not the slightest idea what you are talking about? a person is encouraged to get to know the other person in all types of settings, in company, on a one to one basis, how they deal with their parents etc etc, clearly you have not the slightest idea what you are talking about.
Secondly those countries w ...[text shortened]... your psychological argument then? yes, you had better get your broom out and start sweeping.
"i do not have the slightest idea of what I'm talking about" . geez, Rob, what are you basing that on? I thought my comments were very practical.
I do have much first hand and second hand experience about partnership in this materialistic world.
You again prove that when you have trouble debating properly, ie. debating the actual issues you become underhanded ond go over the top to get your point across. Please!! step into the real world before it bites you on the bum.
24 Feb 10
Just to reinterate: In my experience the majority of people are unhappy with their marriages. A lot seem to stay married because they are familiar with their spouse and have a negative self-image.
I reckon marriage,(like other social institutions), is just a charade. Singles are unhappy because they are lonely,which is a deficiency on their part. And married partners are often unhappy because they feel they are trapped in a relationship that they don't want to leave often for the childrens sake.
To be of 'married' status impresses the Jones next door, but really, why live your life for other people? Anyone can get married , just like anyone can turn 18 and be legally allowed to drink.
The intimacy that comes from having sex with someone cannot be replaced ny words.
"try before you buy' , you say Robbie. Indeed, Why not? whats so wrong with making an informed life choice before you commit to someone for the rest of your life?
Stuff the Jones'es! You have to be responsible for your life at the end of the day. An unhappy marriage is just as bad , if not worse , than being single and not being able to commit to a relationship.
I guess gay marriage is even worse,eh, Rob?
24 Feb 10
2 edits
Originally posted by karoly aczellook at the statistics for Gods sake, stop and just think for one moment, put away your pretensions that you have and just stop and think about what it is you are stating. Your advice is about as practical as a spare 'willie', at a wedding. Persons do not stay together because they are unhappy, does one in two marriages dissolve have any meaning to you? Commitment , what the heck are you talking about commitment, its has statistically been proven, that those who co habitat and engage in pre marital sex, are eighty percent more likely to walk away than those who did not? Does reality mean anything to you? Please do not offer me any more advice about reality.
Just to reinterate: In my experience the majority of people are unhappy with their marriages. A lot seem to stay married because they are familiar with their spouse and have a negative self-image.
I reckon marriage,(like other social institutions), is just a charade. Singles are unhappy because they are lonely,which is a deficiency on their part. And d not being able to commit to a relationship.
I guess gay marriage is even worse,eh, Rob?
24 Feb 10
Originally posted by black beetleyes beetle it is well said, however, you must consider the data also in your evaluation, although admittedly statistics in themselves prove nothing.
What psychological effects? Methinks the whole thing is related with the axiom "Know Yourself". It seems to me a 14 years old girl/ boy has to know what’s going on with her/ himself, with her/ his body and her/ his feelings, s/he needs to feel balanced and s/he needs to know that her/ his parents are there to support her/ him in full. Once the girl/ boy ...[text shortened]... out being married, and couples that they are in misery although they are married. So what?
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What about those young adults, basically children themselves, who are now burdened with children of their own? they themselves are still to develop emotionally and are in some cases ill equipped to cope with the rigours of parenthood.
there is the risk of a sexually transmitted disease. yes its all very well stating that protective sex is the answer, but when alcohol is involved and inhibitions are lowered, what are the chances of being caught up in the moment? Do not the vast majority of instances happen in this way?
young persons should be helped to be responsible for their actions, yes they shall make mistakes, but surely, we who have experience on our side may at least offer some practical advice? Oh if only Icarus had listened to well intentioned advice. It really seems to me that to instil a sense of morality is what is needed. One cannot rely on so called 'safe sex' practices for there are no guarantees with contraceptives that either they shall work, are not faulty or that the person has remembered to take them.
24 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI see your point. Your fear is understandable;
yes beetle it is well said, however, you must consider the data also in your evaluation, although admittedly statistics in themselves prove nothing.
What about those young adults, basically children themselves, who are now burdened with children of their own? they themselves are still to develop emotionally and are in some cases ill equipped to ...[text shortened]... es that either they shall work, are not faulty or that the person has remembered to take them.
But my feer I see solely a matter of accurate or false evaluation of the mind; premarital sex is OK when it is conducted by people who know themselves and their mate well, who take the right precautions and who act out of love. Once the people have knowledge and a stable IQ/ EQ balance, everything will be alright, premarital sex included. Methinks educating the young people properly, emancipating them from mental slavery and offering them the chance to act the way they really please with the one they love and respect, is the sole thing one can do.
But along with my Maria we decided to avoid becoming parents although we love children, so what do I know?
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24 Feb 10
Originally posted by black beetleyour decision is very wise beetle, honestly, kids now are facing problems and pressure unheard of in our, what seems, a rather innocent youth in comparison. We have heard, although i think it needs to be truly experienced, that Greek weddings are awesome affairs. Is it still the case?
I see your point. Your fear is understandable;
But my feer I see solely a matter of accurate or false evaluation of the mind; premarital sex is OK when it is conducted by people who know themselves and their mate well, who take the right precautions and who act out of love. Once the people have knowledge and a stable IQ/ EQ balance, everything will b ...[text shortened]... my Maria we decided to avoid becoming parents although we love children, so what do I know?
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24 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, in some places -ie in Creta- a traditional Orthodox Greek wedding is a huge feast that could last for a whole week day and night non-stop. But this is a rare case, the most traditional Greek weddings last just 24 hours
your decision is very wise beetle, honestly, kids now are facing problems and pressure unheard of in our, what seems, a rather innocent youth in comparison. We have heard, although i think it needs to be truly experienced, that Greek weddings are awesome affairs. Is it still the case?
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25 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo we should force people to stay married? (You could not have stayed married to my ex-wife!) Divorce can be a great thing too. People make mistakes - including having sex that they shouldn't. So what? It is not my business to ensure that other people stay married or don't have sex. People should be free.
yes but you are ignoring the details, in India, marriage is arranged through parents, the prospective partners have not engaged in pre marital sex nor cohabitation, yet they remain committed. whereas you Noobs in the United states and Europe, through your new morality and liberalism have the highest divorce rates anywhere in the known world? proclaim that from your mountain tops if you shall! old Nietzsche was a pure Noob!