My pastor is a secret Atheist

Originally posted by KellyJay
I have strong doubts you ever were a Christian, you can claim you were all you want.

You don't get to define what Christianity is, Kelly. And you don't get to decide who is and isn't a Christian. Profoundly conceited and alienating zeal like yours is one of the many reasons I realized the path you follow is joylessly mundane and spiritually sterile, and is right there among the reasons why I no longer profess the same faith as you do.

Originally posted by FMF
You don't get to define what Christianity is, Kelly. And you don't get to decide who is and isn't a Christian. Profoundly conceited and alienating zeal like yours is one of the many reasons I realized the path you follow is joylessly mundane and spiritually sterile, and is right there among the reasons why I no longer profess the same faith as you do.

I don't know who is or isn't a Christian, I do know that the only ones that are
do belong to Jesus Christ since He saved them and is their Lord. I'm not going
to ask for follow up on why you changed, personally as I said I do not think you
lost a your walk with Christ, because that would mean you had one. My opinion and
like you said it is worth no more than the next guys.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
You don't get to define what Christianity is, Kelly. And you don't get to decide who is and isn't a Christian. Profoundly conceited and alienating zeal like yours is one of the many reasons I realized the path you follow is joylessly mundane and spiritually sterile, and is right there among the reasons why I no longer profess the same faith as you do.

If you think walking with Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God is joyless, mundane,
and sterile you really don't have a clue about my walk with God so claiming you
were like me completely isn't true.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you think walking with Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God is joyless, mundane,
and sterile you really don't have a clue about my walk with God so claiming you
were like me completely isn't true.
Kelly

When I "walked with Jesus" it was certainly not joyless, mundane and sterile. Far from it. I am talking about the spiritual vibe you are giving off as you take it upon yourself to declare people Christians and not-Christians.

Originally posted by FMF
When I "walked with Jesus" it was certainly not joyless, mundane and sterile. Far from it. I am talking about the spiritual vibe you are giving off as you take it upon yourself to declare people Christians and not-Christians.

Okay, a spiritual vibe, cannot debate that one...you got me there.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
When I "walked with Jesus" it was certainly not joyless, mundane and sterile. Far from it. I am talking about the spiritual vibe you are giving off as you take it upon yourself to declare people Christians and not-Christians.

If your walk with Jesus wasn't joyless, mundane, and sterile why did you make that
claim? Those words came from you as you described what you thought I had which
as I may point out you said your walk was like mine.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
If your walk with Jesus wasn't joyless, mundane, and sterile why did you make that
claim? Those words came from you as you described what you thought I had which
as I may point out you said your walk was like mine.

I am saying you give off a joyless, mundane and sterile vibe. You are an alienating kind of Christian.

Originally posted by FMF
I am saying you give off a joyless, mundane and sterile vibe. You are an alienating kind of Christian.

Well I guess if you want to reduce this discussion to pure name calling we can
call it quits.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well I guess if you want to reduce this discussion to pure name calling we can
call it quits.

You haven't accepted any of my statements about myself in good faith or with good grace. I accept you at your word when you say you were/are a Christian. But you are unable to extend the same bit of common decency to me. It seems to be important to you to declare others to be 'this', 'not that' and 'never the other'. Your whole approach to this has been a clumsy and dreary No True Scotsman fallacy writ large. You don't emit any apparent Christian kindness or empathy that one might want to emulate. Indeed, if I were to emulate you I would presumably be saying I don't accept you are a Christian as you claim. But I'm not like that, whereas you are.

Originally posted by googlefudge
That is a no true Scotsman argument.

Basically you are saying that nobody who has ever left the Christian faith can ever really
have been a Christian because no true Christian would ever leave the faith.

This is the point yes, Jesus will not lose any who come to Him.
What has been suggested here by some is that Jesus loses people all the time.
No power in Heaven or Earth can take someone from God, so if I were to hear
a claim that God cannot hold on to His own then the god they are talking about
isn't the God of the universe that sent His Son to die for us. Either God lies or
the people do when it comes to God's salvation.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
You haven't accepted any of my statements about myself in good faith or with good grace. I accept you at your word when you say you were/are a Christian. But you are unable to extend the same bit of common decency to me. It seems to be important to you to declare others to be 'this', 'not that' and 'never the other'. Your whole approach to this has been a clumsy don't accept you are a Christian as you claim. But I'm not like that, whereas you are.

I've accepted you made claims about being a Christian once.
I've accepted you changed your mind and refuse to discuss why.
I've accepted you said your faith was the same as mine at one time, but do not
describe my faith well when you talk about it.
I've accepted we are not going to advance our discussion now.
The discussion centered on what/who is a Christian and why they are.
For my part Jesus' work makes us one, for your part if I understand you correctly
a claim is all that is needed, so we disagree, empathy not required.
Kelly

Originally posted by googlefudge
That is a no true Scotsman argument.

Originally posted by KellyJay
This is the point yes....
Kelly

Well, the "point" about a 'no true Scotsman argument' is that it is a lazy doctrinaire logical fallacy that displays a rigid insistence on not factoring in the actual real world complexity of the human spirit.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've accepted you made claims about being a Christian once.
I've accepted you changed your mind and refuse to discuss why.
I've accepted you said your faith was the same as mine at one time, but do not
describe my faith well when you talk about it.
I've accepted we are not going to advance our discussion now.
The discussion centered on what/who is a Ch ...[text shortened]... erstand you correctly
a claim is all that is needed, so we disagree, empathy not required.

Good for you if your pronouncements about me make you feel good about "Jesus' work" with regard to you. I have no regrets about deciding to separate myself from the kind of on-kelly's-terms-only piety you have displayed here and which is all too common in Christendom.

Originally posted by FMF
Good for you if your pronouncements about me make you feel good about "Jesus' work" with regard to you. I have no regrets about deciding to separate myself from the kind of on-kelly's-terms-only piety you have displayed here and which is all too common in Christendom.

I, don't know why you seem so upset over this with me.
You've rejected Jesus Christ no matter how either of us describe the Christian faith.
I've not called you names, belittled you in any fashion what so ever.
I have tried to tell you that your claims do not seem to be logical.
You cannot say you were "A" then later say "A" is not, was not real, and never
was real, and be true to your claims you were "A".
I get you have no regrets this never was a discussion about things like that at
least on my part. If just saying you were a Christian is how you define the faith
that there is nothing real about, then you can claim whatever you want to about it.
If Jesus did a real work and you missed it, to bad you.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You cannot say you were "A" then later say "A" is not, was not real, and never
was real, and be true to your claims you were "A".

Presumably 'A' = Christian.

I can and do say I was 'A'. Later I did say I was not A. You say that this means I wasn't A before. This is patent nonsense.