My pastor is a secret Atheist

Originally posted by SwissGambit
No, I did not think what I did made me 'good enough'. I believed much as you do. I thought I was a sinner who needed salvation. I told you what I did not to blow my own horn but rather to convey the impression that my beliefs were sincere.

Do you think I would have left the faith if I believed that Jesus had actually spoken to me? If this is what you ...[text shortened]... rt and you would receive it.

So again I ask, did Jesus reject my offer of a relationship?

If you were trying to be good enough you were never going to make it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, but believing isn't what makes one a Christian the devil believes.
Kelly

Ah a bit of pedantry, I see. OK. Point taken.

Do you accept that it is possible for someone to be a Christian, completely, but then later stop being a Christian?

Originally posted by FMF
Ah a bit of pedantry, I see. OK. Point taken.

Do you accept that it is possible for someone to be a Christian, completely, but then later stop being a Christian?

I think anyone who knows Jesus Christ or knew Him, could ever say that
God isn't real. There were many people who walked with Jesus while He was
among us as human that turned away, but I don't think anyone who actually
comes to Jesus Christ gets a relationship with Him would ever turn from
Him. There are more than a small number that walk in the same circles as
believers but don't actually have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Read the
scriptures yourself, see if Jesus loses anyone who came to Him.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think anyone who knows Jesus Christ or knew Him, could ever say that
God isn't real. There were many people who walked with Jesus while He was
among us as human that turned away, but I don't think anyone who actually
comes to Jesus Christ gets a relationship with Him would ever turn from
Him. There are more than a small number that walk in the same ci ...[text shortened]... esus Christ. Read the
scriptures yourself, see if Jesus loses anyone who came to Him.
Kelly

So that's a 'no' then? If someone stops being a Christian, you need to believe that they never were a Christian?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think anyone who knows Jesus Christ or knew Him, could ever say that
God isn't real. There were many people who walked with Jesus while He was
among us as human that turned away, but I don't think anyone who actually
comes to Jesus Christ gets a relationship with Him would ever turn from
Him. There are more than a small number that walk in the same ci ...[text shortened]... esus Christ. Read the
scriptures yourself, see if Jesus loses anyone who came to Him.
Kelly

I dont think you ever defined or explained what a the expression 'relationship with Christ' means. Several posters asked you to explain and you could not. Maybe you yourself are unsure of what you mean by that. I suspect its something you heard and you think it sounds nice.

What exactly does it mean? Can you explain in detail with some examples?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Again, bottom line YOU ANSWER this one simple question...did you yes or no
actually have a relationship with Jesus Christ? You believing there is a god
is meaningless to being a Christian there are lots of people who believe that
who are not Christian. If you didn't have one you never were, if you did why
do you deny Him now?
Kelly

(OK, if you don't want to define it, I'll use what came to be my definition)
Yes, I had a relationship with Jesus.

I deny him now because I no longer think he exists.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you were trying to be good enough you were never going to make it.
Kelly

I was not trying to be 'good enough'. I knew that was not possible. I was trying to ask with a sincere heart and listen for his voice.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think anyone who knows Jesus Christ or knew Him, could ever say that
God isn't real. There were many people who walked with Jesus while He was
among us as human that turned away, but I don't think anyone who actually
comes to Jesus Christ gets a relationship with Him would ever turn from
Him. There are more than a small number that walk in the same ci esus Christ. Read the
scriptures yourself, see if Jesus loses anyone who came to Him.
Kelly

Judas, anyone? 🙂

Oh, I see, you want people who came to him after he died and resurrected. You don't think there could be any modern-day Judases?

I think it's funny that you ask for a scriptural example. Even if I go find one, you'll just say, "Oh, he didn't really ever have a relationship with Christ."

Originally posted by galveston75
So why did they lose their beliefs? Were they false, empty, held no future, misleading, not in the Bible?

Matthew 23:27
American Standard Version (ASV)

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Could this be what they have finally learned?

Bump for Galveston.

JW's lose their faith too; or are you suggesting your particular brand of dogma is impervious to doubt?

Originally posted by FMF
So that's a 'no' then? If someone stops being a Christian, you need to believe that they never were a Christian?

Can you say you've never met someone you have met without lying? You
either did or did not.
Kelly

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont think you ever defined or explained what a the expression 'relationship with Christ' means. Several posters asked you to explain and you could not. Maybe you yourself are unsure of what you mean by that. I suspect its something you heard and you think it sounds nice.

What exactly does it mean? Can you explain in detail with some examples?

You have a relationship with people don't you, I assume you know what that
means, figure it out.
Kelly

Originally posted by SwissGambit
(OK, if you don't want to define it, I'll use what came to be my definition)
Yes, I had a relationship with Jesus.

I deny him now because I no longer think he exists.

So if I understand you now, you believe what you had before was a lie, or
was not true, because NOW you think it never happened?
Kelly

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Judas, anyone? 🙂

Oh, I see, you want people who came to him after he died and resurrected. You don't think there could be any modern-day Judases?

I think it's funny that you ask for a scriptural example. Even if I go find one, you'll just say, "Oh, he didn't really ever have a relationship with Christ."

I pointed out to you those that walked with Jesus when He was a man like
us. Nothing new there as a man He was limited like we are now, after He
rose from the dead not so much.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Can you say you've never met someone you have met without lying? You
either did or did not.
Kelly

You'll have to explain that again. It doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by divegeester
Bump for Galveston.

JW's lose their faith too; or are you suggesting your particular brand of dogma is impervious to doubt?

They sure do.

It all sounds nice to someone who's a bit green, but after people get a bit wiser they realize the division that the JW's create , also their limited teachings, hierarchy,etc. which all paint a negative picture of the JW's