09 Oct 12
Originally posted by VoidSpirityou weren't expected to.
this is what you said.
"but the many holes remaining in M theory have lead me to believe in God."
you claimed that a gap in knowledge led you to believe in god.
it's must be real satisfying to "feel" it. sorry if the rest of us don't jump on the band wagon and go by your feelings.
If mankind hasn't yet completed the full picture then they are IGNORING nothing. And it would be ignorant to dismiss the gaps.
09 Oct 12
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Physics has vast regions locked in an undetermined state. This article might shed light on what im getting at.
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/events/strings02/dirac/hawking/
Although not proof of god, it provides the areas where science fails to achieve ground.
Obviously my personal belief requires none of these Gaps in knowledge, it is more to do with a lack of coincidence in life that has inspired me to believe. I still forward science as my explanation as to the existence of everything, but that, also i believe to be a conscious fabrication.
09 Oct 12
Originally posted by RJHindsWhy do you continue to obsess over evolution? You are free to believe anything you want about the origins of life till we prove otherwise and believe me, we will. Till then, have fun with your fantasy life.
Okay, that is a good start. Life did not come about by evolution, right?
So did the matter in the universe and the forming of the planets and stars come about by evolution or might God have created matter and light and gave some matter life?
P.S Be logical now.
Your creation myth is only one of many, no better than any of them.
10 Oct 12
Originally posted by sonhouseI don't know why God chooses to work through a world where we act upon what
Why don't you have your god explain it all. I don't trust humans as far as I can throw them, and I am pretty weak.
Humans are the ones with a stake for having people believe in fairy tales, not a god.
If a human starts a religion it is that human getting all the goodies, power, women of choice, great places to live, personal servants and all that. God ...[text shortened]... of religion is man made, all of them.
And you are just one of the billions of duped people.
we believe or our faith. I often think it is because it allows us to put up or shut
up when it comes to life, meaning I can say I'm an honest man, and when I find
a wallet with money and ID in it....I either am honest or I'm not.
Life as it is, designed or not is like that, we see a lot of people who will demand
others speak one way, treat them one way, hold others accountable while at the
same time doing those things they claim are false/wrong/bad/evil.
I said all of that for this, God could if He wanted to prove Himself, that isn't the
real issue as far as I can tell. It has more to do with us, if we can demand of our
selves the samething we demand from others we do well. Proving God is real is
not one of the things I can do, or anyone else. Putting forth ideas on why things
are the way they should be done with the same amount of honesty as anything
else. If you are going to demand proof of others you should give it when asked,
if what you believe is just as flawed or proofless as the next guy, don't think you
are some how better than! If all you have are things humans made up as a
possible cause or reasons you've nothing more than a human made up possible
cause or reason which could be accepted today rejected tomorrow.
Kelly
10 Oct 12
Originally posted by VoidSpiritI'm not, if you read the article you find that some of the gaps are believed impossible to fill. If however you don't believe that then Im afraid its someone called VoidSpirit against professor Hawkins. One of whom is clearly very religious about their atheism.
great, then. stop dismissing the gaps.
10 Oct 12
Originally posted by KellyJayWhich is exactly where science is and where religion should be. If a rabbit were to appear in the fossil record 100 million years old and proved to be that old, it would rewrite the book on evolution but you have no such possibility in your religion. NOTHING that the world could show in science would sway the dogmatic religious person, especially the Abrahamic religions where you are taught that people will try to 'break' you, try to force you out of your religion, gird yourself for persecution, etc.
I don't know why God chooses to work through a world where we act upon what
we believe or our faith. I often think it is because it allows us to put up or shut
up when it comes to life, meaning I can say I'm an honest man, and when I find
a wallet with money and ID in it....I either am honest or I'm not.
Life as it is, designed or not is like that, we ...[text shortened]... made up possible
cause or reason which could be accepted today rejected tomorrow.
Kelly
So the science world can advance to the point where it can prove or disprove the existence of god but disproving it scientifically would make no difference to the faithful, carrying that faith till the sun burns out. BTW, I know as I type this your response would be, never happen, science will NEVER disprove the existence of god.
I am just saying suppose that happened, nobody of faith would believe it, just going deeper into their cognitive dissonance and dogma.
10 Oct 12
Originally posted by sonhouseYou don't know if there was a 100 million years ago, again not knowing how this
Which is exactly where science is and where religion should be. If a rabbit were to appear in the fossil record 100 million years old and proved to be that old, it would rewrite the book on evolution but you have no such possibility in your religion. NOTHING that the world could show in science would sway the dogmatic religious person, especially the Abraha ...[text shortened]... nobody of faith would believe it, just going deeper into their cognitive dissonance and dogma.
all started you do not know where the markers are we could use to measure for
that type of time. Faith is all you really have and if you think my faith in God is
different than your faith in your assumptions you are kidding yourself.
Kelly
10 Oct 12
Originally posted by KellyJayMy faith can be tested, proven, disproven. Yours cannot. When my 'faith' as you so quaintly put it is not faith as you know it, it is understanding at the level we can do so far. Ten years ago we were not as good as we are now scientifically speaking, ten years from now we will be better than we are now scientifically speaking.
You don't know if there was a 100 million years ago, again not knowing how this
all started you do not know where the markers are we could use to measure for
that type of time. Faith is all you really have and if you think my faith in God is
different than your faith in your assumptions you are kidding yourself.
Kelly
While on the religious side, ten years ago, ten years ahead, nothing will change, except people getting killed for their belief's and forced into others, just like the American indians, the Australian aborigines, the Aztecs, the Maya's, the Hawaiians and many others around the globe forced into christianity and just like the Muslim extremists are doing now in Africa and every where else they can hold power. Look at that little girl just shot for daring to believe girls deserve to be educated.
You can say christianity has calmed down, no inquisitions and so forth NOW but if times get tough, really tough, like ice age tough, they will be back no doubt about that.
Meanwhile science keeps taking one step at a time, proving or disproving theories and getting to know the world of biology, astronomy, where it all came from, these are questions we may be able to answer in the next 100 years if civilization doesn't go down the tubes like it has so many times in the past.
10 Oct 12
Originally posted by sonhouseYour telling me you have data that isn't made up for a billion years process?
My faith can be tested, proven, disproven. Yours cannot. When my 'faith' as you so quaintly put it is not faith as you know it, it is understanding at the level we can do so far. Ten years ago we were not as good as we are now scientifically speaking, ten years from now we will be better than we are now scientifically speaking.
While on the religious sid ...[text shortened]... 100 years if civilization doesn't go down the tubes like it has so many times in the past.
When did someone start that documentation, I didn't know we were keeping
records that far back.
Kelly
10 Oct 12
Originally posted by KellyJayWhy did you read that into what I wrote? I said nothing specific about dates and such.
Your telling me you have data that isn't made up for a billion years process?
When did someone start that documentation, I didn't know we were keeping
records that far back.
Kelly
To the religious community, dates that conflict with the religion are rejected, regardless of the scientific validity of the dating technique, some of which have been verified by 10 different techniques all in good agreement. The fact that is not good enough for religious folk is your problem not ours.
Science marches on regardless of who poo poo's it on such a superficial level. Science in general is learning about the universe on such a deep level as to totally supersede any religious argument.
For instance, tell me where in the bible they discuss superposition of quantum states, just as one example.
10 Oct 12
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Originally posted by KellyJayDo you not see the blatant hypocrisy in your way of thinking KellyJay!??
Your telling me you have data that isn't made up for a billion years process?
When did someone start that documentation, I didn't know we were keeping
records that far back.
Kelly
You discard any results coming from the sciences (at least you discard those that contradict the ideas you hold on faith) because nobody alive today has been around long enough to watch how the earth has been ticking over for the last several billio...ahem...sorry, ... erm 6 thousand!
*snigger*
years
Yet similarly, with nobody alive today that was alive 6000 years ago to witness any of the events alleged to have taken place in the Bible, you accept without question the ramblings contained in scripture.
You repeat this argument over and over again...it's ridiculous. Crikey - how do you even know your parents are actually your parents!?? You sure as hell weren't around to watch them having sex 9 months before your birth. What if everyone is lying!? What if all the relevant documents were faked?
Indeed by your reasoning, given that we must completely throw out the notion of reasonable inference - I say that its a fifty-fifty shot your parent's aren't who you think they are!
10 Oct 12
Originally posted by sonhouseAtheism has been defeated in this forum many times by me - so now you are simply forgetting about that are you? (rhetorical question)
It's a lot more believable than 'god did it'. I'll bet you didn't even read it did you.
In your post you are rejecting christianity,s false beliefs about God and so you should reject that which is false.
However....... to reject the principle of God outright is to be an atheist.
And we all know that to be atheist is to be dishonest.
Start from the beginning and tell us how conscious life came to be - and how all that exist came to be as well.
And try and do this without being dishonest please ........by mentioning uncaused spontaneous intelligent events popping up out of nowhere without plan or blueprint or design.
There is more information in one cell than all the books in your house.
10 Oct 12
Originally posted by DasaAtheism has been defeated in this forum many times by me.
Atheism has been defeated in this forum many times by me - so now you are simply forgetting about that are you? (rhetorical question)
In your post you are rejecting christianity,s false beliefs about God and so you should reject that which is false.
However....... to reject the principle of God outright is to be an atheist.
And we all know that to be a ...[text shortened]... blueprint or design.
There is more information in one cell than all the books in your house.
LOL!!!!!!! Delusions of granduer if ever there was.
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10 Oct 12
Originally posted by Dasaplease,please,please can we have a live demonstration of you jumping over 20 cars on a motorbike and defeating atheism at the same time.
Atheism has been defeated in this forum many times by me - so now you are simply forgetting about that are you? (rhetorical question)
In your post you are rejecting christianity,s false beliefs about God and so you should reject that which is false.
However....... to reject the principle of God outright is to be an atheist.
And we all know that to be a ...[text shortened]... blueprint or design.
There is more information in one cell than all the books in your house.