Spirituality
20 Oct 14
03 Nov 14
Originally posted by wolfgang59Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple." (NASB) wolfgang, these words in the New Testament Koine Greek context are spoken by Christ to His disciples in a comparative way as a matter of principle and priority, not as the transitive verb "to hate" per se. Similar to the well known line written by English Poet Richard Lovelace in the mid 1600's:
Luke 14:26
If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate
his own father and mother and wife and children
and brothers and sisters… he cannot be My disciple.
"Yet this inconstancy is such As you too shall adore; I could not love thee, Dear, so much, Loved I not honour more."
03 Nov 14
Originally posted by redbadgerYou either do not do very many good deeds, or you are particularly pessimistic about the few times it didn't work out so well.
every good deed I have ever done has had negative returns.
Have you ever given to a charitable cause? What was the negative return? You got poorer as a result?
03 Nov 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyHave you contacted any of the people who translate or publish versions of the Bible?
These words in the New Testament Koine Greek context are spoken by Christ to His disciples in a comparative way as a matter of principle and priority, not as the transitive verb "to hate" per se.
03 Nov 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyMost Bible scholars agree that the language commonly used by Jesus was Aramaic. Are you suggesting that
Jesus very likely spoke Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek; the Gospels were written in Koine [common language] Greek.
Jesus was speaking in Greek in this particular instance? Or were the words translated to Greek by Luke?
06 Nov 14
The Roman Empire controlled and occupied Israel at the time of Jesus. It's likely Jesus was able to talk to the Romans he was recorded to have spoken with in their native tongue, because it was undoubtedly necessary (and consistent with reality) for the people of Israel to understand their occupiers language... otherwise every Roman soldier and official would need to learn and be able to speak in their language, which is highly unlikely because it was the Romans who were in charge there and calling the shots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_Roman_Empire
06 Nov 14
1 edit
Originally posted by HandyAndyWhy are you busting his nads over this?
Bump for Bobby.
A little research would give you more info than you need.
Jesus could have spoken Chinese and it wouldn't change the fact that the NT was written in Greek. Maybe educate yourself so you don't sound like a bulldog chasing off an intruder.
07 Nov 14
Originally posted by HandyAndyHebrew and Aramaic are very close languages and Jesus must have been able to speak both. The Dead Sea Scrolls were in Hebrew and the Jewish Synagoges maintained the scriptures in Hebrew from which Jesus was able to read. But the Hebrew sciptures had been translated into Greek after the Greeks conquered the land and most all the people were forced to learn Greek during that time.
Bump for Bobby.
When the Romans conquered Israel, it is obvious that it would be beneficial for the people to learn some Latin when doing business with the Roman government, but there is no indication the people were forced to learn Latin. But here is a quote from the New Testament that mentions three languages that must have been spoken by people in Jerusalem at the time, but not all the people there were fluent in all three languages.
Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross. It was written, "JESUS THE NAZARENE, THE KING OF THE JEWS." Therefore many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin and in Greek.
(John 19:19-20 NASB)
07 Nov 14
Originally posted by SuzianneIf there's any nad-busting going on, it's coming from your direction.
Why are you busting his nads over this?
A little research would give you more info than you need.
Jesus could have spoken Chinese and it wouldn't change the fact that the NT was written in Greek. Maybe educate yourself so you don't sound like a bulldog chasing off an intruder.
An issue was raised over the use of the word hate in Luke 14:26. I'm suggesting that Jesus might have
chosen a word like forsake rather than hate, and the original utterance somehow got lost in translation.
Do you have anything to offer besides personal attacks?
07 Nov 14
Originally posted by HandyAndyI believe you make a good point there, because the idea does not seem to be like we use the word "hate" today to mean "to detest". The idea does seem to be to abandon or forsake as you point out.
If there's any nad-busting going on, it's coming from your direction.
An issue was raised over the use of the word hate in Luke 14:26. I'm suggesting that Jesus might have
chosen a word like forsake rather than hate, and the original utterance somehow got lost in translation.
Do you have anything to offer besides personal attacks?
07 Nov 14
Originally posted by RJHindsHellenistic influence surely finished 150-200 years before JC.
But the Hebrew sciptures had been translated into Greek after the Greeks conquered the land and most all the people were forced to learn Greek during that time.
When the Romans conquered Israel, it is obvious that it would be beneficial for the people to learn some Latin when doing business with the Roman government, ...
Although Greek remained the lingua franca for many years
throughout the Med. ... but that would have been for
businessmen and traders. Not carpenters. (??)
I think its 50/50 at best that JC spoke Greek.
Aramaic was his everyday spoken language and
as a good Jewish lad he would know Hebrew.
As for Latin? Unlikely!!!
07 Nov 14
1 edit
Originally posted by lemon limehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_Jesus
The Roman Empire controlled and occupied Israel at the time of Jesus. It's likely Jesus was able to talk to the Romans he was recorded to have spoken with in their native tongue, because it was undoubtedly necessary (and consistent with reality) for the people of Israel to understand their occupiers language... otherwise every Roman soldier and official w ...[text shortened]... harge there and calling the shots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_Roman_Empire
According to Hebrew historian Josephus, Greek wasn't spoken in first century Palestine. Josephus also points out the extreme rarity of a Jew knowing Greek.
Whether or not Jesus knew how to speak Greek is actually irrelevant to the verse in question. There can be little doubt, that if Jesus existed, and he actually spoke the words in the verse, then he would have used Aramaic when speaking them.