Omnipotent, omniscient God

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
"Forget about the verses..."? "...logically implied from the Bible"? Did you ever consider why I simply point to the words of Jesus and you are compelled to try to extrapolate from them? Or to extrapolate from extrapolations of others? Or to extrapolate from extrapolations of extrapolations of others, etc.? You consistently resort to building these convo tand. That you don't live in truth.

I hope that someday you come to this realization.

How can one live in a book? If the truth is just an idea or a verse then it's just dead wood to be honest. Jesus said we are to live in HIM , and that's elegant and simple AND it's in the Bible.

To live in the truth is to live in the spirit and that spirit is Jesus , present via the Holy Spirit. Don't confuse "extrapolations" with living spirituality. The moment you realise that truth is not some intellectual concept or moral code but in reality it is the presence of the living Christ with you , then and only then will you have understood Jesus.

I agree with you that truth is simple and elegant , but Jesus did not say his "words" were that truth he said HE was the Truth. The truth is a person . Jesus did not "speak" the truth , he WAS (IS) the truth.

" I am the truth , the life and the way , no-one can come to the father except through me"

Originally posted by knightmeister
How can one live in a book? If the truth is just an idea or a verse then it's just dead wood to be honest. Jesus said we are to live in HIM , and that's elegant and simple AND it's in the Bible.

To live in the truth is to live in the spirit and that spirit is Jesus , present via the Holy Spirit. Don't confuse "extrapolations" with living spiritual ...[text shortened]... the truth , the life and the way , no-one can come to the father except through me"

You call how you arrive at your concepts "living spirituality" instead of "extrapolations" in a desparate attempt to justify them. Whatever you call it, it's still needlessly complex and convoluted. It's still not simple and elegant. It's still not truth.

Are you saying that the words of Jesus are not truth? Try reading what I wrote, then look at the tangent you took from that in yet another convoluted attempt to "win a point". If you lived in truth, you'd attempt to arrive at truth instead.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You call how you arrive at your concepts "living spirituality" instead of "extrapolations" in a desparate attempt to justify them. Whatever you call it, it's still needlessly complex and convoluted. It's still not simple and elegant. It's still not truth.

Are you saying that the words of Jesus are not truth? Try reading what I wrote, then look at the ...[text shortened]... mpt to "win a point". If you lived in truth, you'd attempt to arrive at truth instead.

Of course the words of Jesus are true but the truth encapsulated in them is one of living spirituality. I mean what do you think all that talk about the Holy Spirit was about? About "remaining in me as I will remain in you" , and " you will know that I am in you and you are in me" , " I will not leave you as orphans" , " I will send the comforter to be with you" " When he the spirit of truth comes he will guide you in all truth" etc etc.

Don't you realise that Jesus was not talking metaphorically but literally? I would say the truth of the living Christ is far more elegant and simple than even you realise. A child who can't read or understand the Bible can receive the Holy Spirit. There could be nothing more simple or beautiful than a simple childlike opening of the heart to Christ.


You need to read and think about what Jesus said about himself and the Holy Spirit . You think I'm bothered about "winning a point"? If you don't believe me ask Jesus to reveal his presence to you , maybe you will believe him instead. It astounds me that the truth is there staring you in the face and you can't see Him.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Of course the words of Jesus are true but the truth encapsulated in them is one of living spirituality. I mean what do you think all that talk about the Holy Spirit was about? About "remaining in me as I will remain in you" , and " you will know that I am in you and you are in me" , " I will not leave you as orphans" , " I will send the comforter to be ounds me that the truth is there staring you in the face and you can't see Him.

Now you've managed to move seriously off-topic. Is this part of the "game" for you? You toss out more red herrings than anyone I know. Like I've told you before, it's as if your goal is to just throw out as many obstacles as you can.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Now you've managed to move seriously off-topic. Is this part of the "game" for you? You toss out more red herrings than anyone I know. Like I've told you before, it's as if your goal is to just throw out as many obstacles as you can.

You teach what you most need to learn.

Originally posted by knightmeister
You teach what you most need to learn.

I'm the one trying to keep this from getting too far off-topic. This is the game you always play. Instead of discussing the matter at hand, you throw out ridiculously convoluted ideas, make unfounded accusations, twist the words of others, etc., to keep people "busy" refuting the ideas and/or defending themselves.

You seem incapable of having an honest discussion.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I'm the one trying to keep this from getting too far off-topic. This is the game you always play. Instead of discussing the matter at hand, you throw out ridiculously convoluted ideas, make unfounded accusations, twist the words of others, etc., to keep people "busy" refuting the ideas and/or defending themselves.

You seem incapable of having an honest discussion.

Below are your words not mine . You brought up the whole subject of truth and "living in the truth". All I did was respond using argument and verses from the Bible. If you can't think of a response or have no answer then just say so instead of accusing me of playing games. I mean what's all this stuff about "going off topic" . It's not as if 99% of the threads around here stay on topic anyway!! LOL

You obvioulsy can't allow yourself to think about the real living truth of Christ and the Holy Spirit because it threatens your belief system. As usual you start something off that you can't finish and so resort to accusations. Where is your argument?



"Jesus spoke the truth. Truth is simple and elegant. If you lived in truth, you'd understand this.

You consistently demonstrate that you don't understand. That you don't live in truth." --THINK OF ONE

Originally posted by knightmeister
Below are your words not mine . You brought up the whole subject of truth and "living in the truth". All I did was respond using argument and verses from the Bible. If you can't think of a response or have no answer then just say so instead of accusing me of playing games. I mean what's all this stuff about "going off topic" . It's not as if 99% of th monstrate that you don't understand. That you don't live in truth." --THINK OF ONE

This is yet another example of how you twist things to suit your purposes. Let's put this in context:

I said:
"Show me the verses where it says that God knows the complete future. So far as I know, God makes not such claim."

Then you started off one one of your convoluted tangents saying things like:
"Which future are you refering to , your's , Hitler's , Ghengis Khan's ?"

"You seem to have a problem with things that are logically implied from the Bible ."

"Forget about the verses..."

Then I tried to point out how you cannot arrive at truth by convoluting the facts and how to recognize truth. That's what you quoted in part above.

At least one person has called you an idiot on these forums. You certainly make it difficult to wonder why.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
This is yet another example of how you twist things to suit your purposes. Let's put this in context:

I said:
[b]"Show me the verses where it says that God knows the complete future. So far as I know, God makes not such claim."

Then you started off one one of your convoluted tangents saying things like:
"Which future are you refering to , y called you an idiot on these forums. You certainly make it difficult to wonder why.

If you want to call me an idiot at least have the balls and honesty to do so. I understand that you need to retain your aloof self image by using indirect sideswipes but at least do me the respect of being honest about it.

What to you is convoluting , to me is just God allowing us space to figure a few things out for ourselves like adults. You seem to want everything spelt out and neat and tidy and no mess. It just sounds anally retentive to me.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
This is yet another example of how you twist things to suit your purposes. Let's put this in context:

I said:
[b]"Show me the verses where it says that God knows the complete future. So far as I know, God makes not such claim."

Then you started off one one of your convoluted tangents saying things like:
"Which future are you refering to , y ...[text shortened]... called you an idiot on these forums. You certainly make it difficult to wonder why.

At least one person has called you an idiot on these forums.---thinkofone---

It was retard actually , unless there was someone else (?) , I'm sure there must have been. Anyway , I kinda love it when people throw insults at me because you know you must have made a good point.

Originally posted by knightmeister
At least one person has called you an idiot on these forums.---thinkofone---

It was retard actually , unless there was someone else (?) , I'm sure there must have been. Anyway , I kinda love it when people throw insults at me because you know you must have made a good point.

I've read this entire thread. Wow. It started out as a good discussion but has twisted into something ugly.

Let me ask whomever is reading a question. If God doesn't know the future then how was Revelation written and why? This is a book about what is to come.

A God that doesn't know everything and isn't omnipresent isn't much good is he? He wouldn't really be God then would he?

Originally posted by chappy1
I've read this entire thread. Wow. It started out as a good discussion but has twisted into something ugly.

Let me ask whomever is reading a question. If God doesn't know the future then how was Revelation written and why? This is a book about what is to come.

A God that doesn't know everything and isn't omnipresent isn't much good is he? He wouldn't really be God then would he?

You are exactly right. It's what I've been saying all along. It doesn't seem to resonate though.

Originally posted by chappy1
I've read this entire thread. Wow. It started out as a good discussion but has twisted into something ugly.

Let me ask whomever is reading a question. If God doesn't know the future then how was Revelation written and why? This is a book about what is to come.

A God that doesn't know everything and isn't omnipresent isn't much good is he? He wouldn't really be God then would he?

Why would God not be God if He didn't have complete knowledge of the future? Is this assertion based on your conception of God or scripture? If it's scripture, please provide the verses.

I'm sure you're aware that there's hardly concensus on the what, how, why, etc. of Revelation. Even if accepted as a "book about what is to come", is there anything that precludes it from being a plan? A plan does not necessitate complete knowledge of the future.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Why would God not be God if He didn't have complete knowledge of the future? Is this assertion based on your conception of God or scripture? If it's scripture, please provide the verses.

I'm sure you're aware that there's hardly concensus on the what, how, why, etc. of Revelation. Even if accepted as a "book about what is to come", is there anything t ...[text shortened]... ludes it from being a plan? A plan does not necessitate complete knowledge of the future.

The Bible has been proven to be accurate in every detail. Archaeology and history shows this to be true. Especially concerning prophesy.

Originally posted by josephw
The Bible has been proven to be accurate in every detail. Archaeology and history shows this to be true. Especially concerning prophesy.

Accurate in EVERY detail?
So, the inconsistent accounts in the 4 gospels are accurate how?

(See http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/jesusappear.htm for starters ...)