Omnipotent, omniscient God

Originally posted by josephw
The Bible has been proven to be accurate in every detail. Archaeology and history shows this to be true. Especially concerning prophesy.

All prophesy can be a plan revealed. It doesn't necessitate complete knowledge of the future.

Originally posted by josephw
The Bible has been proven to be accurate in every detail. Archaeology and history shows this to be true. Especially concerning prophesy.

Are you on drugs? It's the book MOST inconsistent , with the most internal incongruences, with the most inaccuracies I know of.
Even christian archaeologist bending science and all other archaeologists opinion can't make the connections and reach a uniform understanding.

You touched a good theme.
"proven to be accurate, specially concerning prophecies...." ALL prophecies have been refuted. Nostradamus is much better then the Bible. Astrology is even better at making predictions.

Originally posted by amannion
Accurate in EVERY detail?
So, the inconsistent accounts in the 4 gospels are accurate how?

(See http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/jesusappear.htm for starters ...)

They are not inconsistent. If you put 4 people in a room and show them a play they are all going to remember it differently. Simply because they remember it differently doesn't make any of them wrong or inconsistent with the other. It's simply that different people see different things as important. The general themes are consistent with eachother throughout.

Originally posted by serigado
Are you on drugs? It's the book MOST inconsistent , with the most internal incongruences, with the most inaccuracies I know of.
Even christian archaeologist bending science and all other archaeologists opinion can't make the connections and reach a uniform understanding.

You touched a good theme.
"proven to be accurate, specially concerning prophecies ...[text shortened]... . Nostradamus is much better then the Bible. Astrology is even better at making predictions.

"All prophecies have been refuted"?

Please explain this.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Why would God not be God if He didn't have complete knowledge of the future? Is this assertion based on your conception of God or scripture? If it's scripture, please provide the verses.

I'm sure you're aware that there's hardly concensus on the what, how, why, etc. of Revelation. Even if accepted as a "book about what is to come", is there anything t ...[text shortened]... ludes it from being a plan? A plan does not necessitate complete knowledge of the future.

Ok, here you go.

King James Version
Revelation 19:6
"And I heard as it were the verse of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth."

You asked for scripture so there you go. Since it came directly from the Bible do you now believe or are you still insisting on a God that is anything less than what is written?

Originally posted by chappy1
"All prophecies have been refuted"?

Please explain this.

All the so called "prophecies" either are false or have been shown not to be really prophecies.

Originally posted by chappy1
They are not inconsistent. If you put 4 people in a room and show them a play they are all going to remember it differently. Simply because they remember it differently doesn't make any of them wrong or inconsistent with the other. It's simply that different people see different things as important. The general themes are consistent with eachother throughout.

That's not quite what JosephW said though is it.
He claimed it was entirely accurate.
So what's accurate?

Originally posted by chappy1
Ok, here you go.

King James Version
Revelation 19:6
"And I heard as it were the verse of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth."

You asked for scripture so there you go. Since it came directly from the Bible do you now believe or are you still insisting on a God that is anything less than what is written?

"Omnipotent" and the alternate translation "almighty" are gross terms that are open to interpretation. It does not speak to intent. Is it intended to include complete knowledge of the future? What if complete knowledge of the future is an impossibility just as it is an impossibility for God to create a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it?

For that matter, there are verses that can be interpreted to indicate that God doesn't even have complete knowledge of the past and present no less the future:

Genesis 3:9-11 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? He said, "I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself." 11 And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"

Genesis 18:20-21 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and, if not, I will know.

Etc.

It'd be easy to take the above and show it as "proof" that God's omniscience is limited.



Once again, are there verses that explicitly state that God had complete knowledge of the future?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
"Omnipotent" and the alternate translation "almighty" are gross terms that are open to interpretation. It does not speak to intent. Is it intended to include complete knowledge of the future? What if complete knowledge of the future is an impossibility just as it is an impossibility for God to create a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it?

For that m ...[text shortened]... e there verses that explicitly state that God had complete knowledge of the future?

You asked if there was anything in scripture that pointed toward God being omnipotent. I'm assuming that you thought it wouldn't be there or you wouldn't have dropped the challenge. I found a verse that contains omnipotent tied with God and you still reject what it written.

Omnipotent- having great or unlimited authority or power.

What does unlimited mean to you? To me it means power over everything and everyone. Unlimited includes the future because it has no limits. The word "omnipotent" isn't open to interpretation. It is clear what omnipotent means for those that own a dictionary. Unlimited authority or power is abundantly clear to me.

Originally posted by chappy1
You asked if there was anything in scripture that pointed toward God being omnipotent. I'm assuming that you thought it wouldn't be there or you wouldn't have dropped the challenge. I found a verse that contains omnipotent tied with God and you still reject what it written.

Omnipotent- having great or unlimited authority or power.

What does unlimit for those that own a dictionary. Unlimited authority or power is abundantly clear to me.

Did you even read my previous post?

Do you understand that a "word" is merely a token for meaning? That a "word" often can convey meanings that are not intended or can omit meanings that are intended?

What of the following qoute from Genesis?
Genesis 18:20-21 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and, if not, I will know.

Why does God have to "go down now and see" if He already knows? Why does He say He "will know" if He already knows? Is God lying or does He just not understand the power that YOU have given him?

The point is that you can play "word games" all day long if you want to.

So once again, are there verses that explicitly state that God had complete knowledge of the future?

By the way, why do you say, "You asked if there was anything in scripture that pointed toward God being omnipotent. I'm assuming that you thought it wouldn't be there or you wouldn't have dropped the challenge" when what I specifically asked of YOU was the following?:
"Why would God not be God if He didn't have complete knowledge of the future? Is this assertion based on your conception of God or scripture? If it's scripture, please provide the verses."

Also, I know that there are references to "omnipotent" and/or "almighty". Several had already been point out. If you'd read the thread in its entirety like you claimed, you'd know this.

Originally posted by chappy1
You asked if there was anything in scripture that pointed toward God being omnipotent. I'm assuming that you thought it wouldn't be there or you wouldn't have dropped the challenge. I found a verse that contains omnipotent tied with God and you still reject what it written.

Omnipotent- having great or unlimited authority or power.

What does unlimit ...[text shortened]... for those that own a dictionary. Unlimited authority or power is abundantly clear to me.

You're being obtuse. What you said makes no sense in the argument, because you thrown in an interpretation of omnipotent that might not be the same as your god's.
There can be things that are impossible, even to God, do you agree?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Did you even read my previous post?

Do you understand that a "word" is merely a token for meaning? That a "word" often can convey meanings that are not intended or can omit meanings that are intended?

What of the following qoute from Genesis?
[b]Genesis 18:20-21 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their si ...[text shortened]... ou'd read the thread in its entirety like you claimed, you'd know this.

Why would God not be God if he didn't have complete knowledge of the future?
Um, because then he wouldn't be omnipotent (unlimited authority or power) and Revelation says he's omnipotent. That's why. This is not my conception of God, it's in scripture. I have already provided the verse that I am referring to. If you already know that omnipotent and almighty are littered throughout the Bible then why are we having this discussion. The question has been answered.

Originally posted by serigado
You're being obtuse. What you said makes no sense in the argument, because you thrown in an interpretation of omnipotent that might not be the same as your god's.
There can be things that are impossible, even to God, do you agree?

The only things that God cannot do is to be something that goes agains his nature. For instance God cannot lie. God cannot be unholy. God cannot be evil. Everything and anything else he can do. Period.

Originally posted by amannion
That's not quite what JosephW said though is it.
He claimed it was entirely accurate.
So what's accurate?

All of it.

Originally posted by chappy1
Why would God not be God if he didn't have complete knowledge of the future?
Um, because then he wouldn't be omnipotent (unlimited authority or power) and Revelation says he's omnipotent. That's why. This is not my conception of God, it's in scripture. I have already provided the verse that I am referring to. If you already know that omnipotent and al ...[text shortened]... roughout the Bible then why are we having this discussion. The question has been answered.

What of the quote from Genesis? Why does God not seem to understand all His powers?

Do you really not understand what's being presented here? I hate to have to ask it, but how old are you?